Overly toxic player EU

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Alassau
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Re: Overly toxic player EU

Post by Alassau » Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:43 am

Dexter wrote:
secondly i want to apologize. I agree with Dicky in one thing. I insult to much, fact. I try to stop it, YeuYeu allready recognized that.

Let me conclude with pointing out that Tenkz got it right i love to troll and i have my own understanding of comedy. That helps me alot handle the pub games i play, because pub games are pure horror.
Also let me say that your community has much greater problems than me. I speak about players wishing cancer (Yautja) to other players or yelling bad words much worse than ape (Vogin).

Greetings
Dexter, like Yeuyeu said, you almost made me quit zh.
That's why I don't want to play with you anymore. Any priv or pub. At some point people insulting others must understand that it has consequences and people don't want to play with you anymore.

Otherwise, I congratulate you for trying to be a better man, that's a good way of thinking, i may change my opinion about you this way.

I understand being frustrated, everyone is, but not like this. A tip : when you gotta let it go, just do it like "fuk dis team" and not aim at a particular person, cuz people taking it for themselves is just bad af.

I mean, if you play pubs, you know people can be really bad for many games. Myself didnt win a single game for my first 20 games, cuz i sucked so hardly, couldnt catch a single puck.
That's why it makes me laugh when they say "after 5 games, he still doesnt improve".

Last but not least : I prefer loosing 100 games and improve by myself (or not) than someone telling me "Your a fuking ape dumb as hell" and giving me tips.
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Re: Overly toxic player EU

Post by SilentFate » Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:50 am

Freedom of speech is so strong in germany they will beat u down and put in cell if u speak shit about immigrants... Merkel is the hitler of 21 century.. She gonna make from germany new moslim country... German people are finally waking up tho after the massive rape accident in Kolin... Sadly too late but better than never i guess.. multiculturalism will never work in europe people need understand this...
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Blitz
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Re: Overly toxic player EU

Post by Blitz » Thu Jan 14, 2016 4:56 pm

Dalton wrote:
Blitz wrote:The moment you begin banning possible up and coming pub players is the moment your community will decline. This thread is dumb, if a person bothers you block them ...
That is a silly statement. The amount of people turned off on this game by toxic players is far greater then the amount that you would ban.
Why is there no chat system in hearthstone, one of the most popular games right now? Why did League of Legends implement "The Tribunal"?
If your statement was true these major gaming companies would not be investing so much time to fight this toxicity.

As an example just this week a player that people have invested personal effort into getting from pub to privates is being publically thrashtalked/shamed in our public channel because he is not as skilled as was desired by one of our more notoriouly toxic players and as a result decreasing this player's willingness to be part of our community and nullifying any efforts made by people that are trying to be useful. There are also examples of veterans that end up quitting the game just because they are tired of dealing with these toxic people on a daily basis. You could argue these people need to grow some thicker skin but tbh i would rather play with those people than their counterparts.

I myself do some dumb shit from time to time that might negatively impact the community and when i think of the fact that i am destroying something that others put so much effort into building it bothers me.
Because... EU ZH community doesn't have millions of people playing in it... derp?
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Marker
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Re: Overly toxic player EU

Post by Marker » Thu Jan 14, 2016 5:19 pm

Alassau wrote:Last but not least : I prefer loosing 100 games and improve by myself (or not) than someone telling me "Your a fuking ape dumb as hell" and giving me tips.
Are these things mutually exclusive? Like I don't like water, blitz, or ling but I still listen to them because what they're saying is true, even over all the insults. I feel like this is an extremely shady tactic to make a mute point or you are a really stubborn/close-minded person. And I thought u were good when I played with you, and didn't say anything, and in fact that may even be worse. Better not to build up bad habits (citing the post where the community discussed whether to let pubs into high quality games faster). Sure it's a turnoff to be constantly told you're shit, but can't you look beyond that, it seems to be more of a you issue. Like, am I the only one who sees this mindset as more damaging than a person just constantly swearing/being toxic? At least he can be dismissed because what he says carries no weight, but to completely shut out people...
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Re: Overly toxic player EU

Post by JMoney » Thu Jan 14, 2016 7:14 pm

Marker wrote: mute point
Lmao lolzorz
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Re: Overly toxic player EU

Post by Amigaway » Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:47 pm

Marker wrote:
Alassau wrote:Last but not least : I prefer loosing 100 games and improve by myself (or not) than someone telling me "Your a fuking ape dumb as hell" and giving me tips.
Are these things mutually exclusive? Like I don't like water, blitz, or ling but I still listen to them because what they're saying is true, even over all the insults. I feel like this is an extremely shady tactic to make a mute point or you are a really stubborn/close-minded person. And I thought u were good when I played with you, and didn't say anything, and in fact that may even be worse. Better not to build up bad habits (citing the post where the community discussed whether to let pubs into high quality games faster). Sure it's a turnoff to be constantly told you're shit, but can't you look beyond that, it seems to be more of a you issue. Like, am I the only one who sees this mindset as more damaging than a person just constantly swearing/being toxic? At least he can be dismissed because what he says carries no weight, but to completely shut out people...
Well, is the criticism is constructive sure. Alass is actually one to take any advice he can to improve his gameplay and is considered the strongest rookie the EU community has seen in a long time. But if you're a newcomer who don't know control and the best player in game is just mocking or insulting you without saying anything but "you're a fucking ape" there isn't much to be taken from it ^^.
Idk if it's the case on NA, but in EU pub, we have some very slow learners, especially because of the linguistic barrier. Just tonight, after a game, I taught a 50 something french puber that if he really wanted to "train and improve" as he told me, he should try using the X key to turn/dribble/stop. He didn't know there was an X key ability cause he hadn't used it once efficiently as he had started and forgot about it, thinking it was "broken". Another good example is Dex's "Is this ice map ?" mocking russian players, infamous in pub cause it's hard to ever communicate with most of them.

On one hand, when you've played 20 games and lost most by not touching the puck, you know you're doing bad. Having a pub star mock you for it and insult you isn't going to help you realize what you did wrong. You might not understand the use of some keys or how to move or might need some time to adjust. You certainly don't need to be disheartened by someone who's not going to give you even a hint at what you did wrong.

I still think that Dex does more good to pub community than he endangers it. He has made some sort of apology and participated for the first time on the forum to do so. I do understand that some of you do not want to forgive him just yet, but I'm glad to see most of you recognize his gesture and attempt to reintegrate the community.

As for the debate on freedom of speech and the different definitions of that right country by country : it's a very interesting debate, but I don't know if it should be developed here ? It is true that France is more keen to condemn certain viewpoints and speeches considered hateful. Hence you could say that we are less tolerant of those view points and, in a way, repressive. However, multiple european juridic systems also implemented a "right to be forgotten". While watching a few of the primary elections debate in the US, I was taken aback by the fact that a politician was quoted on declarations he had made more than 5 years prior during some, seemingly local, interview. After saying his point of view on the question had changed, the political figure was then asked the same question two more times, the journalist asking for more details and probably a better explanation.
In France, this sort of thing is rather rare, it's unusual for news program to remind the viewer that when he was in his early 30s, a specific politician had different views. Same goes for the private life of our officials. The daily show once compared the french election of 2007 and the american one, explaining how most french people didn't care much about their president to be's private life, or how him and his wife were living separately when not on screen.

I don't think any of those two systems offers much less freedom than the other, just that they are different. And in Dex's case, I'd much rather have people blame him for his speech and allow him the right to change and/or show his good side than for them to acknowledge his right to be an ass but not recognize he can and has also been a valuable part of our community.
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Marker
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Re: Overly toxic player EU

Post by Marker » Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:58 pm

Amigaway wrote:
Marker wrote:
Alassau wrote:Last but not least : I prefer loosing 100 games and improve by myself (or not) than someone telling me "Your a fuking ape dumb as hell" and giving me tips.
Are these things mutually exclusive? Like I don't like water, blitz, or ling but I still listen to them because what they're saying is true, even over all the insults. I feel like this is an extremely shady tactic to make a mute point or you are a really stubborn/close-minded person. And I thought u were good when I played with you, and didn't say anything, and in fact that may even be worse. Better not to build up bad habits (citing the post where the community discussed whether to let pubs into high quality games faster). Sure it's a turnoff to be constantly told you're shit, but can't you look beyond that, it seems to be more of a you issue. Like, am I the only one who sees this mindset as more damaging than a person just constantly swearing/being toxic? At least he can be dismissed because what he says carries no weight, but to completely shut out people...
Well, is the criticism is constructive sure. Alass is actually one to take any advice he can to improve his gameplay and is considered the strongest rookie the EU community has seen in a long time. But if you're a newcomer who don't know control and the best player in game is just mocking or insulting you without saying anything but "you're a fucking ape" there isn't much to be taken from it ^^.
Idk if it's the case on NA, but in EU pub, we have some very slow learners, especially because of the linguistic barrier. Just tonight, after a game, I taught a 50 something french puber that if he really wanted to "train and improve" as he told me, he should try using the X key to turn/dribble/stop. He didn't know there was an X key ability cause he hadn't used it once efficiently as he had started and forgot about it, thinking it was "broken". Another good example is Dex's "Is this ice map ?" mocking russian players, infamous in pub cause it's hard to ever communicate with most of them.

On one hand, when you've played 20 games and lost most by not touching the puck, you know you're doing bad. Having a pub star mock you for it and insult you isn't going to help you realize what you did wrong. You might not understand the use of some keys or how to move or might need some time to adjust. You certainly don't need to be disheartened by someone who's not going to give you even a hint at what you did wrong.

I still think that Dex does more good to pub community than he endangers it. He has made some sort of apology and participated for the first time on the forum to do so. I do understand that some of you do not want to forgive him just yet, but I'm glad to see most of you recognize his gesture and attempt to reintegrate the community.

As for the debate on freedom of speech and the different definitions of that right country by country : it's a very interesting debate, but I don't know if it should be developed here ? It is true that France is more keen to condemn certain viewpoints and speeches considered hateful. Hence you could say that we are less tolerant of those view points and, in a way, repressive. However, multiple european juridic systems also implemented a "right to be forgotten". While watching a few of the primary elections debate in the US, I was taken aback by the fact that a politician was quoted on declarations he had made more than 5 years prior during some, seemingly local, interview. After saying his point of view on the question had changed, the political figure was then asked the same question two more times, the journalist asking for more details and probably a better explanation.
In France, this sort of thing is rather rare, it's unusual for news program to remind the viewer that when he was in his early 30s, a specific politician had different views. Same goes for the private life of our officials. The daily show once compared the french election of 2007 and the american one, explaining how most french people didn't care much about their president to be's private life, or how him and his wife were living separately when not on screen.

I don't think any of those two systems offers much less freedom than the other, just that they are different. And in Dex's case, I'd much rather have people blame him for his speech and allow him the right to change and/or show his good side than for them to acknowledge his right to be an ass but not recognize he can and has also been a valuable part of our community.
I agree with most of this, I was mostly upset that people were calling that dexter be banned for his actions, which I believe is totally wrong and insane. I by no means think that people aren't allowed to say hes toxic and try to control/complain about his toxicity, but he still has value as you said and that banning him is still ridiculous.
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Alassau
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Re: Overly toxic player EU

Post by Alassau » Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:41 am

Marker wrote:
Alassau wrote:Last but not least : I prefer loosing 100 games and improve by myself (or not) than someone telling me "Your a fuking ape dumb as hell" and giving me tips.
Are these things mutually exclusive? Like I don't like water, blitz, or ling but I still listen to them because what they're saying is true, even over all the insults. I feel like this is an extremely shady tactic to make a mute point or you are a really stubborn/close-minded person. And I thought u were good when I played with you, and didn't say anything, and in fact that may even be worse. Better not to build up bad habits (citing the post where the community discussed whether to let pubs into high quality games faster). Sure it's a turnoff to be constantly told you're shit, but can't you look beyond that, it seems to be more of a you issue. Like, am I the only one who sees this mindset as more damaging than a person just constantly swearing/being toxic? At least he can be dismissed because what he says carries no weight, but to completely shut out people...
Marker, like Yeuyeu said, there's a difference between you and newcomers. You know blitz, water, etc. You know their character. But when u're newcomer? U don't know people insulting you, plus u know u suck. So when people insult you, you necessarly take the insults personnaly thinking "ok i suck at this i don't want to play anymore". Obviously i took enough distance to stay here but many newcomers may react this way. That's my point.
It may be my personnality but for instance i think no teacher will efficiently teach things to students by telling them "u're fucking bad a english, you ape, u got to do this...". If so, the student will almost always be disguted. I'm partially a math teacher so I know what i'm talking about.

Now that I know the community, even toxic players, i like opinions to improve.
I may add one thing : people can come play zh just to have fun. They don't necessarly want to improve like pros.

To finish, I agree with you, Dexter shouldn't be banned for this.
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Re: Overly toxic player EU

Post by Dexter » Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:22 am

I really want to stop this thread here.

I want to apologize again for my ingame behaviour and i accept it is a no go independently from what people are thinking about it.
I hereby promise i will work on it and i learned my lesson.

Thanks to whoever removed my channel ban.

Please CLOSE this thread now i don't want being involved in political discussions.
Uhh ahh ahh Banana u want ?
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Re: Overly toxic player EU

Post by DeadMeat » Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:11 pm

Amigaway wrote: - My personal worst experience comes from players I actually like : Huge shootout to the original TRTH squad, with rob, memento and deadmeat (which I must say is probably the nicest guy I've met in the community ?), players I usually loved.
I had been playing, as my regular pub star self about a year ago I think ? 1st season of league was going to happen and there was lots of hype. One afternoon, I decided to try to teach to 3 newcomers the controls. We played two games and they started passing and even turning with x a little. Sad part of the story, we entered a lobby with those 3 TRTH players, wanting to train for league and having probably found no priv on, it was rather early I believe. I asked for bala, they didn't answer. We took a beating but I told my guys it was just one game, next would probably be better. Except it wasn't cause we got the exact same thing. I convinced them to play one last after waiting 5 mins... and it was TRTH again. At that point, knowing they were facing a pretty bad team, they didn't play, they passed. they formed a circle around me, passing between them and dodging the newcommers. When I asked them to stop (at the beginning of 2nd) Deadmeat PM me, saying "sorry dude, it's for league, you're good training ^^' ". I left after insulting them and didn't log for 10 days. Never saw those pubers again either.
[/u]
This is only in repsonse to Yeuyeus post

Clearly we had different views on these games. I think you are overreacting a bit. We wanted to play casual pub game, and it just so happened that we were the only people queuing up for a pub game at that time.
You cannot expect the public games always to have newcomers. You yourself is not a newcomer and you only play in pubs. The wisest thing to do would probably host your own private server and invite in players of equal level.

I don't remember what was being said as this was quite a while ago, but I'm sure that had you to told us to leave you alone, we would.
I'm not even sure how you can quote me on that, since this would be a private message and so it wouldn't have been saved anywhere? I know that sounds like something you would say in a courthouse, but I know by myself that I didn't mean 'this is good for us so we're going to use you as training' but more as in 'this is good training for all of us'.

With that said I'm really sorry about how you felt after playing those games. I promise you, we had no intentions of making fun of you or to 'play' with your friends.
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