Puck sometimes doesn't get picked up

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Coftea
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Puck sometimes doesn't get picked up

Post by Coftea » Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:55 pm

This seems to be a rather rare bug but I am a bit surprised that this hasn't been reported yet since this is extremely annoying when its happening. As you can already conclude from this post's title, sometimes the puck will not get picked up by a player.
For a long time I wasn't sure if my eyes are tricking me or not, but once after I was like 100% sure I picked up the puck I had to watch the replay and found proof. This was like 3 - 4 weeks ago. After that I paid more attention to it and it seems like this actually happens not too rarely:
[+] Proof 1 normal speed
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[+] Proof 1 slomo
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[+] Proof 2 normal speed
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[+] Proof 2 slomo
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[+] Proof 3 normal speed
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[+] Proof 3 slomo
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Would be cool if someone of the dev team could take a look on this Image
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Re: Puck sometimes doesn't get picked up

Post by Chaotic » Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:14 pm

Seems like the same thing happened in each of these clips: the player turned/swiped their stick around the puck right as it passed. I believe the stick moves instantly, so it would seem that you had the stick right in front of the incoming puck, waiting for it, but then clicked again and your stick reappeared slightly in back of the puck, resulting in no contact with the puck at all.
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Re: Puck sometimes doesn't get picked up

Post by l)arkangel » Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:23 pm

If the sticks detection radius moves instantly, but the stick itself has an animation when turning that would explain a lot. I've seen the skater and the stick facing different ways before.... aka stick perpendicular to skater. Would explain y my attempted spin steals don't work. Or more likely lack of skill, but hey theres hope now I guess.
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Re: Puck sometimes doesn't get picked up

Post by Watermelon » Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:12 pm

i don't think the stick moves instantly
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Re: Puck sometimes doesn't get picked up

Post by ilvsntrs » Fri Aug 12, 2016 4:58 am

l)arkangel wrote: Would explain y my attempted spin steals don't work. Or more likely lack of skill, but hey theres hope now I guess.
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Re: Puck sometimes doesn't get picked up

Post by Coftea » Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:27 am

Chaotic wrote:I believe the stick moves instantly [...] resulting in no contact with the puck at all.
l)arkangel wrote:If the sticks detection radius moves instantly, but the stick itself has an animation when turning that would explain a lot.
I agree that if the pickup detection radius of a stick moves instantly with a click, it would probably explain all 3 clips I have provided. In order to check this I did a little test:
[+] Test if detection radius of a stick gets changed instantly
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You can clearly see that the stick itself is definitly not moving instantly. This clip also shows very clearly that the pickup detection radius of a stick is not moving instantly too otherwise the puck besides the player wouldn't get picked up. This means we haven't found the reason why the puck didn't get picked up in my 3 clips.
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Re: Puck sometimes doesn't get picked up

Post by Tenkz » Fri Aug 12, 2016 4:13 pm

If only Elder were here to help with this..

From my understanding, the game runs on (1/16)s ticks, meaning the puck is capable of moving 16 times per second. This also means that you're able to put your stick into the pickup radius and out of it in that tiny little window (roughly 6.25% of a second), and whiff the puck completely. This is more often seen with goalies actually, and can result in the puck completely negating the goalie's stick or body, if it is shot with enough power and perfectly so that the next movement tick is just behind the goalie. I'm fairly certain about this, but not 100% sure. Would ask Eldersage or Themusic for greater accuracy.
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Re: Puck sometimes doesn't get picked up

Post by LittleDicky » Fri Aug 12, 2016 4:57 pm

I've always explained it to myself the way tenkz said. This stuff always happens in fast action, quick shots or fast turning.
There is a guy that i think is exploiting this a lot - can't remember the name, but he just comes close to the goalie with max charge and shoots through his stick in the pixel gap beween stick and post.

Btw thanks for the effort with nice gifs
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Re: Puck sometimes doesn't get picked up

Post by Marker » Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:14 pm

I believe one of the biggest things that people liked better from warcraft 3 with this game was that there was natural collision detection based on the models (simplified). I don't think the music could actually explain or fix this because its a problem with the physics engine itself, and god knows how well blizzard makes their games now a days...
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Coftea
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Re: Puck sometimes doesn't get picked up

Post by Coftea » Fri Aug 12, 2016 10:36 pm

Tenkz wrote:From my understanding, the game runs on (1/16)s ticks, meaning the puck is capable of moving 16 times per second.
I am roughly aware of how a game is calculating these things. The server usually checks for collisions, events etc in certain intervals (simulation rate / tick rate) and is distributing the results of these calculations to the clients. But I wasn't aware that the tick rate is this low. Tried to check if 16 ticks right, but couldn't find anything official from Blizzard.

If the tick rate is really this low, maybe this actually explains why the puck didn't get picked up by the player in my clips. But then I am really surprised why this isn't happening way more often. When you rewatch each of my clips, you can see that the puck is travelling at maybe about 20% - 40%? of the puck's possible top speed. When the puck doesn't get picked up at this low speed, how are we even able to pick up pucks that travel with top speed? Well its possible that the puck did hit the player's stick at a very very unlucky moment, where the server was right in between 2 collision checks and wasn't been able to notice that puck was in the pick up radius of the player. But for me it feels like the puck was near the player's stick for sufficient amount of time so the server could notice that. I have seen faster pucks getting picked up by spinning players.

This may be the reason and the case is closed. Devs can't do anything to change the tick rate. But maybe its safer to double check the related code just to be sure if this is really the reason. Image
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