Bring back Z steal?

Post suggestions you have here that relate to the game's mechanics
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Re: Bring back Z steal?

Post by BoooM » Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:53 pm

krazymen wrote:
MoS wrote:I don't think Z-steal had a very high amount of skill attached to it. It was an advantage for the offensive player who could sometimes pull of a steal out of nowhere - and if the player ever wanted to not take the risk and keep the puck for sure he was dribbling already. So yeah I think it was a positive little push for defense. We've had discussions and how the "you get the last steal" argument stands, but in the end it's an advantage for offense, and the question is "do we want to give offense this advantage back ?". I think we don't. With various factors it lead to a meta where you actually build up teamplay actions instead of relying on your clicking-boosting through defenders "skills", and I'm all up for that.

I don't think it's anything close to removing one-timer at all.

I don't think the boost steal should come back.
That is wrong on so many levels of you don't see the advantage Defender can get with boost stealing and don't even know what you can do with boost stealing no wonder you want it gone.
If you have ever been relying on boost steal as def, you have been doing it wrong...

Also, you should probably reconsider suggesting that a top 5 allrounder mostly known for his def has no clue about the advantages and disadvantages of boost steal.

Also, you should probably try to deliver something more that an one-liner as an "argument".
As guidance, you can you use the following thread, where a bunch of people have argued in depth about the useless mechanic you want back:
http://www.zealothockey.net/forum/viewt ... =15&t=1958
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Re: Bring back Z steal?

Post by krazymen » Mon Sep 05, 2016 7:10 pm

BoooM wrote:
krazymen wrote:
MoS wrote:I don't think Z-steal had a very high amount of skill attached to it. It was an advantage for the offensive player who could sometimes pull of a steal out of nowhere - and if the player ever wanted to not take the risk and keep the puck for sure he was dribbling already. So yeah I think it was a positive little push for defense. We've had discussions and how the "you get the last steal" argument stands, but in the end it's an advantage for offense, and the question is "do we want to give offense this advantage back ?". I think we don't. With various factors it lead to a meta where you actually build up teamplay actions instead of relying on your clicking-boosting through defenders "skills", and I'm all up for that.

I don't think it's anything close to removing one-timer at all.

I don't think the boost steal should come back.
That is wrong on so many levels of you don't see the advantage Defender can get with boost stealing and don't even know what you can do with boost stealing no wonder you want it gone.
If you have ever been relying on boost steal as def, you have been doing it wrong...

Also, you should probably reconsider suggesting that a top 5 allrounder mostly known for his def has no clue about the advantages and disadvantages of boost steal.

Also, you should probably try to deliver something more that an one-liner as an "argument".
As guidance, you can you use the following thread, where a bunch of people have argued in depth about the useless mechanic you want back:
http://www.zealothockey.net/forum/viewt ... =15&t=1958
I have 3 ZHL championship under my belt as well as a chl and finishing 3rd place in 3k tournament. I dont really care if the guy im talking to is considered top 5 defender, if i think he has no idea what hes talking about I will say it because ive been playing this game for a very long time well before eu had a league or even had a zh community. The only sensible argument against boost stealing is that its random when it actually isnt and you just dont know how to use it. Much easier to see a mechanic of the game gone than actually practice against/with it. If you think me defending that mechanic means i was rellying on it on defense you are absolutely wrong and know nothing about defensively using boost steal.
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Re: Bring back Z steal?

Post by forumusername » Mon Sep 05, 2016 7:14 pm

NA VS EU

FUCK KRAZY BUT FUCK EU MORE TBH
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Re: Bring back Z steal?

Post by JMoney » Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:30 pm

4 championships still drafted in the 4th round rofl nuff said
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Re: Bring back Z steal?

Post by forumusername » Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:02 am

were you even on the team krazy???
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Re: Bring back Z steal?

Post by Cafca » Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:18 am

I did vote yes, but I say we should make Z-steal an option instead, like goalie cursor boost bring turned off or on. The community vote is too close to either bring it back for everyone or ditch it altogether.
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Re: Bring back Z steal?

Post by MoS » Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:07 am

krazymen wrote:
MoS wrote:I don't think Z-steal had a very high amount of skill attached to it. It was an advantage for the offensive player who could sometimes pull of a steal out of nowhere - and if the player ever wanted to not take the risk and keep the puck for sure he was dribbling already. So yeah I think it was a positive little push for defense. We've had discussions and how the "you get the last steal" argument stands, but in the end it's an advantage for offense, and the question is "do we want to give offense this advantage back ?". I think we don't. With various factors it lead to a meta where you actually build up teamplay actions instead of relying on your clicking-boosting through defenders "skills", and I'm all up for that.

I don't think it's anything close to removing one-timer at all.

I don't think the boost steal should come back.
That is wrong on so many levels of you don't see the advantage Defender can get with boost stealing and don't even know what you can do with boost stealing no wonder you want it gone.

If you boost as a defender it means you are already out of position. In absolutely no case it should be used to steal the puck for it is far too risky, unless it's your last chance - and that means you already failed as a defender so it is irrelevant.
Boost steal added a convenient "high risk - very high reward" for players who actually struggle to control standard plays and master basic mechanisms in defense. Following this logic and giving less impact to a risky move, we encourage a more stable and constructive meta. I've already spoken on boost-steal for offense.

I feel like I'm repeating myself but you are not explaining all the fantastic things you can do with a boost steal in defense while I'm explaining you all the fantastic things you should not do in defense. One more post and I should consider this a paid training Kappa
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Re: Bring back Z steal?

Post by NoVa » Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:45 am

MoS wrote:
krazymen wrote:
MoS wrote:I don't think Z-steal had a very high amount of skill attached to it. It was an advantage for the offensive player who could sometimes pull of a steal out of nowhere - and if the player ever wanted to not take the risk and keep the puck for sure he was dribbling already. So yeah I think it was a positive little push for defence. We've had discussions and how the "you get the last steal" argument stands, but in the end it's an advantage for offense, and the question is "do we want to give offense this advantage back ?". I think we don't. With various factors it lead to a meta where you actually build up team-play actions instead of relying on your clicking-boosting through defenders "skills", and I'm all up for that.

I don't think it's anything close to removing one-timer at all.

I don't think the boost steal should come back.
That is wrong on so many levels of you don't see the advantage Defender can get with boost stealing and don't even know what you can do with boost stealing no wonder you want it gone.

If you boost as a defender it means you are already out of position. In absolutely no case it should be used to steal the puck for it is far too risky, unless it's your last chance - and that means you already failed as a defender so it is irrelevant.
Boost steal added a convenient "high risk - very high reward" for players who actually struggle to control standard plays and master basic mechanisms in defence. Following this logic and giving less impact to a risky move, we encourage a more stable and constructive meta. I've already spoken on boost-steal for offence.

I feel like I'm repeating myself but you are not explaining all the fantastic things you can do with a boost steal in defense while I'm explaining you all the fantastic things you should not do in defense. One more post and I should consider this a paid training Kappa
I disagree here MoS, you can easily use boost to stay in position but it's situational.
On the main topic, I'm not 100% sure if boost steal was op. I've noticed some top skaters are doing worse without it though. Maybe we should play a whole season without it to compare stats to earlier seasons?
Last edited by NoVa on Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bring back Z steal?

Post by krazymen » Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:47 am

MoS wrote:
krazymen wrote:
MoS wrote:I don't think Z-steal had a very high amount of skill attached to it. It was an advantage for the offensive player who could sometimes pull of a steal out of nowhere - and if the player ever wanted to not take the risk and keep the puck for sure he was dribbling already. So yeah I think it was a positive little push for defense. We've had discussions and how the "you get the last steal" argument stands, but in the end it's an advantage for offense, and the question is "do we want to give offense this advantage back ?". I think we don't. With various factors it lead to a meta where you actually build up teamplay actions instead of relying on your clicking-boosting through defenders "skills", and I'm all up for that.

I don't think it's anything close to removing one-timer at all.

I don't think the boost steal should come back.
That is wrong on so many levels of you don't see the advantage Defender can get with boost stealing and don't even know what you can do with boost stealing no wonder you want it gone.

If you boost as a defender it means you are already out of position. In absolutely no case it should be used to steal the puck for it is far too risky, unless it's your last chance - and that means you already failed as a defender so it is irrelevant.
Boost steal added a convenient "high risk - very high reward" for players who actually struggle to control standard plays and master basic mechanisms in defense. Following this logic and giving less impact to a risky move, we encourage a more stable and constructive meta. I've already spoken on boost-steal for offense.

I feel like I'm repeating myself but you are not explaining all the fantastic things you can do with a boost steal in defense while I'm explaining you all the fantastic things you should not do in defense. One more post and I should consider this a paid training Kappa
I've already explained it before but i guess some people have a bad memory Kappa. I'll do again later once i get on my pc just for you
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Re: Bring back Z steal?

Post by MoS » Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:52 am

NoVa wrote:
MoS wrote:
krazymen wrote:
That is wrong on so many levels of you don't see the advantage Defender can get with boost stealing and don't even know what you can do with boost stealing no wonder you want it gone.

If you boost as a defender it means you are already out of position. In absolutely no case it should be used to steal the puck for it is far too risky, unless it's your last chance - and that means you already failed as a defender so it is irrelevant.
Boost steal added a convenient "high risk - very high reward" for players who actually struggle to control standard plays and master basic mechanisms in defence. Following this logic and giving less impact to a risky move, we encourage a more stable and constructive meta. I've already spoken on boost-steal for offence.

I feel like I'm repeating myself but you are not explaining all the fantastic things you can do with a boost steal in defense while I'm explaining you all the fantastic things you should not do in defense. One more post and I should consider this a paid training Kappa
I disagree here MoS, you can easily use boost to stay in position but it's situational.
On the main topic, I'm not 100% sure if boost steal was op. I've noticed some top skaters are doing worse without it though. Maybe we should play a whole season without it to compare stats to earlier seasons?
If you boost to stay in position it means that if you don't boost you are out of position, doesn't it? There's no real use for boost in defense unless to catch up with the player you're defending on. Other argument would be to clear the puck afterwards if you are safe to do so...
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