Assigned Salary Values

Kyle
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Assigned Salary Values

Post by Kyle » Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:51 pm

I was thinking that it kind of sucks a bit that rosters are going to be entirely scrapped next season and re-drafted, in order to maintain parity throughout the league. Part of that has to do with owners that may or may not want to stay in ownership, part of it has to do with expanding the league to include more teams. I think we could figure out relatively easy solutions to those problems. But it seems to me that the primary issue is the arbitrary nature of the salary.

In real sports, salary has a meaning to players. They want a higher salary because it means they can buy more expensive cars. So they have a reason for asking to be paid their worth. In ZHL, owners can't afford to pay their players real money, and if they can, it's not going to be very much, so nothing's going to stop players from taking a lower salary than they might deserve in order to play on a stacked team and increase their chances of winning.

As an alternative to the negotiated salaries of the current season, and having to disband teams entirely and start anew every season, I propose this change:

At the end of the playoffs, current ownership collectively takes a look at all the players who played in games this season. They meet with each other and they decide a salary value for each player, being as objective as they possibly can. If that sounds too tedious, maybe some kind of mathematical formula like this one can be devised to assign a salary automatically. Any player currently on a roster that did not play in a game this season is released into free agency and goes back into the draft pool with a minimum salary value assigned to them, or in future seasons, the same salary value as last season. With the players that remain on each roster at that point, the owner can look at how much room they have in their allotted 1200 salary cap (or whatever the number is), decide if they have room for everyone, and release as many or as few of their players into free agency as they like, provided they stay under the cap. Perhaps in the interest of fairness between players and owners, we require that the decision to stay or leave has to be mutual. Anyone released into free agency maintains their assigned salary and goes back into the draft pool. Maybe we could figure out a way to assign a salary to all the free agents that didn't play in a game this season, too, with some kind of play-in or something, I don't know. At any rate, we then hold a draft, and teams don't get a pick until a number of rounds equal to the number of players still on their roster have gone by. That way new teams get to pick the best possible players first, since the returning teams got to keep the players of their choosing. And in the interest of preventing a team from hitting their cap with only four players or something, set a minimum roster size, and maybe even a minimum number of players that have to play in at least one game over the course of the season.

There's probably still some details to hammer out to turn this idea into a workable plan, but something along these lines could help to keep the core group of a team that wants to stay together, together, while still going a long way to prevent those teams from getting ridiculously over-powered. Thoughts?
Last edited by Kyle on Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Assigned Salary Values

Post by Kurt_58 » Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:29 pm

Kyle wrote:In real sports, salary has a meaning to players. They want a higher salary because it means they can buy more expensive cars.
Seems legit :D
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Re: Assigned Salary Values

Post by Anglefire » Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:02 pm

if only Genius didn't screw up his team's salary.....
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Re: Assigned Salary Values

Post by Kyle » Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:15 pm

Anglefire wrote:if only Genius didn't screw up his team's salary.....
That's kind of my point, Angle. Trying to eliminate salary negotiations altogether. The salaries from this season would be completely scrapped and new values would be assigned to the players based on their performance. Then teams could figure out who they have room to keep for next season and who they release to free agency, instead of completely redrafting the entire league every season.

I may be on to a formula to determine salary automatically. Take a look at this spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... 5J3i5GS31A.

Probably still needs a bit more thought, and definitely needs thorough data (I just pulled from the screenshots in the game results thread) but basically, your salary is determined based on the average ZH points earned per player per game, and how your points per game compare to that average.
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Re: Assigned Salary Values

Post by Watermelon » Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:43 pm

I've said this before and I'll say it again on this thread: you cannot mathematically determine a player's value. Let me just give a few examples:

1. Goalies receive significantly fewer points than fielders
2. Blocking passing lanes does not award points
3. Defense does not award as many points as offense

I also cannot overlook some other flaws in your proposed method of determining salary:

1. If points per game is a major factor in determining salary, and a team locks in their playoff spot, every member of the team can intentionally play horribly for the remainder of the season, thus lowering their points/game, lowering their salaries, providing them with the opportunity to stack their team.

2. How will you take # of games played into account? By this calculation, someone could only play a single game with a high number of points and get stuck with a salary higher than any owner is willing to pay for them. What then?


The way I see it, there are two ways to keep ZHL balanced:

Option A: Redraft Every Season

Pros:
-Prevent restricted free agency in the offseason (players will organize themselves onto stacked teams if they are left as restricted free agents)
-Allow swapping out of owners who no longer wish to be one
-Allow for players with dramatic skill increases/decreases to be distributed across the league evenly
-Allow players who are "retiring" to do so without breaking balance

Cons:
-Not very much choice for players (owners pretty much make all the decisions)
-Without salary, players can still hypothetically refuse to play ("i demand a trade") until they're placed on a stacked team

Option B: Make Salary Mean Something

Pros:
-Players are given more freedom in the offseason (restricted free agency)
-Teams remain balanced so long as players value their salary

Cons:
-Some players (myself included) still won't care about salary, they'd rather get wins
-We'd have to rely on the ZH dev's to be active with the salary "shop", who to this date still haven't even given us an oval rink
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Re: Assigned Salary Values

Post by Kyle » Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:13 pm

Then forget the automatic formula and assign values with an owner meeting or a captains meeting instead. This idea's not reliant on the automatic formula I proposed; that was a separate idea to try to help streamline the process. But you make a very valid argument against trying to assign the values automatically, because you're right, those points are based almost entirely on offensive production and little else. So throw that part out. Why can't the league make a collective decision on a player's worth, though? Too subjective? I don't know. If the values have to be figured collectively, I think that makes it objective enough. My only concern would be that it'd take too long.

Still, I think an idea like this is worth considering. Because yes, redraft is an easy way to solve the issue of parity/balance, but I don't know that it's the best fix. I see no reason why assigned salaries prevent owners from swapping out, and if there's a collaborative decision made on a player's worth, I think that's objective enough to prevent team stacking. Players can "retire" without harming the parity because the draft will still exist for anybody who leaves their team and new up and coming players to come in.
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Re: Assigned Salary Values

Post by Watermelon » Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:25 pm

In regards to salaries being subjectively determined by an owner's meeting, yes it would take forever. Also, I can't help but feel like that removes a lot of the strategy for ownership. To me, the biggest appeal to being an owner is the aspect of trying to "outsmart" the other owners in terms of how good you think players are.

Of course, free agency complicates it much further. How is the salary of the countless players signing up for free agency determined, when the owners oftentimes have never even seen half of them play?
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Re: Assigned Salary Values

Post by Kyle » Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:30 pm

Fair point. Though even with the redraft method, you're going to face that issue with free agency, unless somebody actually can come up with a formula that accurately evaluates a player's value automatically. In which case, you're back to removing the strategy for owners a little bit, aside from being able to assess a player's actual worth versus their assigned value.
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Re: Assigned Salary Values

Post by Kyle » Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:04 pm

What if the automatic values assigned could be changed by petition? A player could petition that his value be reviewed if he's not happy with it, or an owner could petition about somebody else's player, and only then do you have owners deliberate about adjusting it. That would significantly cut down on the time requirement for owners evaluating people, and allow for comparable value to be set for the less tangible contributions of a player, while still giving the owners plenty to strategize with. Maybe put a limit on how many players an owner can petition about, though, so things don't get out of hand.
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Re: Assigned Salary Values

Post by Droplets » Thu Jun 05, 2014 9:18 pm

I read the first post, then saw this huge and long extra explanation and suggestions, then I decided and said to myself, screw it YOLOSWAG!

I only want salary to take my team, mostly Kurt to dinner while only giving Rasp a piece of bread.
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