Probe League Playoff Eligibility

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Re: Probe League Playoff Eligibility

Post by Vapour » Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:12 pm

I have to agree with daggy here. We have 16 members in our group, 5 players haven't even logged on for a month. Take another 6 for the ZHPL restrictions. It leaves the Zenn Chill to only have 5 players to show up who aren't even active for games except for maybe 2 players.
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Re: Probe League Playoff Eligibility

Post by Ranchinator » Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:04 pm

+1 I agree with Daggy and Vapour, we are having trouble in general getting enough players to log in that aren't restricted by the rules that you have set up Kyle. I think that it should be the same as the probe league rules during the league. Daggy and Perplex have ALWAYS skated in probe league and nobody cares about it because (no offense to either of them) they arent that great of skaters in general. The way it looked yesterday, we weren't the only team with this problem. So I think that it would be a good idea to just revert back to the rules made for Probe league during the season.
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Re: Probe League Playoff Eligibility

Post by Kyle » Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:33 pm

I love when I repeat myself. It gives me warm fuzzy feelings. Really.

#1- The rules for playoff eligibility are different from regular season eligibility by necessity. In the regular season, there was an equivalent ZHL match-up. That is not the case in the playoffs. The format is different, the opponents are different, so the rules have to be different.
#2- Built-in exceptions allow up to 2 ZHL players to play in roles they never played in a ZHL game if you don't have enough probe league players available. So no, you don't need 10 people online at game time. In fact, since match-ups aren't the same, you may not even be playing probe on the same night as ZHL in the playoffs. You need 4 for each game, and 2 could be the same. That would be a minimum total of 6, not 10.
#3- I'd like to quote for you something I said in the original post of this thread, because apparently, you didn't see it:
Kyle wrote:If you wait until match time to try to plead your case, it will fall on deaf ears. Make your exception requests now.
Everyone had the chance to ask for additional exceptions. No official requests were made (except one that was later retracted, by Zenn's owner, in fact). Get enough votes from other teams and you can still have those additional exceptions. But if you wait until game time to throw 3 ZHL caliber players into a probe league game when the eligibility rules that have been available for public consumption since the start of the season say you can't do that, you shouldn't be surprised to find that game ruled a forfeit.
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Re: Probe League Playoff Eligibility

Post by RusH » Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:10 pm

Follow the rules, no exceptions!
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Re: Probe League Playoff Eligibility

Post by ooter » Mon Oct 13, 2014 6:15 pm

Kyle wrote:Get enough votes from other teams and you can still have those additional exceptions. But if you wait until game time to throw 3 ZHL caliber players into a probe league game when the eligibility rules that have been available for public consumption since the start of the season say you can't do that, you shouldn't be surprised to find that game ruled a forfeit.
You want us to get 2/3rds of the owners votes? We'd be lucky to get 2/3rds of owners to even read the forums at this point. The season is over. People have checked out. And why the shit is it a 2/3rd vote anyway? There are eight teams in the league. A 2/3rd vote means we have to get SIX of the eight owners. 2/3rds = 75% when there's 8 voters. That's unrealistic even if everyone was active.

We did what was necessary to have a probe league game that was balanced, competitive, and fun. I put myself in goalie and I am, by far, the worst goalie on Zenn Freeze. We had two goalies playing as fielders. And we had one fielder who's never played a game for us and only been on the team a couple weeks. Clearly we did not stack the game. We could have put Vapour in goal with a 2v3 field and probably had a better team. The game went to overtime after a last minute goal to tie the game, and ultimately ended when the other team's goalie own goaled. That's such a perfect game for probe league.

The point of probe league is to get people involved in competitive games who don't make the ZHL game. If you want to put the enforcement of poorly thought out rules ahead of actually playing the game within the spirit of probe league, you may as well forfeit all our probe league games because your rules make it impossible for us to field a team or get exceptions. If you want probe league games to be played the best they can be played so everyone can have fun, let us have a little effing discretion to do what needs to be done.
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Re: Probe League Playoff Eligibility

Post by Kyle » Mon Oct 13, 2014 6:40 pm

First off, before you start crying "poorly thought out rules," maybe try reading them.
If at least 5 teams + the commissioner (that's me), or at least 6 teams, vote in favor of the exception you've requested, it will be granted.
That'd be 6 out 9 votes, including the team requesting it, so really only 5 out of 8. You were one away from getting an exception for one of your players before you retracted that request. If you don't feel like enough teams are chiming in on the subject, try talking to them. Ask them to put in a vote on it. That's not unrealistic at all.

This exception procedure was something I added to an existing rule policy that's been in place since day 1 of the probe league specifically to allow for teams that may have difficulty with fielding enough eligible players to find a way around it. Please don't start blaming me because you didn't make use of it.

And don't tell me I didn't think through these rules. Just because you don't like them doesn't mean they're not thought out. The line has to be drawn somewhere, or everyone can throw any player on their ZHL roster out on the ice, and we end up with two versions of the same playoff bracket. These lines were drawn at the beginning of the season, and nobody said a Goddamn thing until after the playoffs had started. And now I've even added a loophole to compensate for potential complaints, and you're still bitching at me. Tough titty, said the kitty, but there ain't no milk.
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Re: Probe League Playoff Eligibility

Post by daggius2 » Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:45 pm

kyle, ooter stated from day 1 of trading to get perplex that he is meant to be the backup keeper. he made a public statement on forum. and ooter has benched himself for the past month to let ranch be the starting skater. so both of these players are reserve players, why should they be restricted from playing in the reserve league? that is the whole point of the reserve league. to play the reserve players. you banning our reserve players from playing the reserve game. how can we play in the reserve game without our reserve players?? they are good guys that actually show up for games and they dont get to play in either game. doesnt even make sense.

if u want to draw a line somewhere, draw it fairly for all teams and ban the same # of players for each team. not 4 players for some teams and 6 for others. why not just ban the 4 starting players from every team? you're randomly punishing some teams.
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Re: Probe League Playoff Eligibility

Post by Blitz » Tue Oct 14, 2014 12:01 am

I would like to say something on this matter.

The Broodlings had a ZHPL match for the playoffs against some lion or something ( Tarsonis Lions? ) whatever. Anyways, myself and Cafca were ineligible, and knowingly we both agreed mutually that in order to field a game at that time that was planned, that we would both have to skate, and that we would 3v3. Sorry Kyle we both knowingly broke your rules. :)

Obviously many rules were broken, which is why Kyle has rescheduled the game. I wanted to comment on 3 important things here :

1). I can seriously understand where Kyle is coming from at this point. I mean he works his ass off, and he made every single rule for both leagues at the beginning of the season, and the start of the ZHPL. We all obviously should be following these rules, because they were written for a reason.. To keep everything as subjectively fair as possible. So we all need to follow the rules that Kyle has laid out, because for one he's the fucking commissioner, and two 99% of his rules are rock solid, so give him a little fucking respect please.

2). I also wanted to comment on the whole Dag/Oot/Ranch.. basically the entire Zen Freeze/Chill squad. First, don't team up on Kyle -- that's lame. Now to address the argument and specifically the points they are making, I actually agree with a lot of what they are saying Kyle. I mean retrospectively, even for our team.. The Broodlings, we had to break the rules simply to field a 3v3 game, with TWO ineligible players. Obviously you cannot wisk away your rules, because people are inactive. That's not your fault, or anyone's for that matter. That's one of the struggles of being an owner; however, I think there are some ways that roster size can be increased fairly in order to help field appropriate ZHPL squads in order to have a fun and competitive playoff series, which I will address in just a moment. Back to the matter of why should players that aren't starting regularly currently, and why can't they participate in the Probe League (reserve player matches).. I also agree with the Zen F/C argument, in a way, because inactive ZHL players should be able to continue to show off their stuff in reserve matches, that's how they are going to be able to showoff for the next season, especially in the Probe League, which will be more popular next season, I hope; however, I don't think it should be implemented as a rule on the spot, made up by a manager short of players. That is a rule that should be implemented next season for that matter, and by the commissioner in a fashion that he deems in fair for all. So back off of Kyle there, and keep your threads subjective and don't direct hatred towards Kyle, because your players won't show up.

3). Now to address the situation of inactivity, because it's obviously prevalent in this situation. (AGAIN ZEN F/C, POST SUGGESTIONS, NOT CRITICISM AND BM TOWARDS KYLE). I think one thing that could be implemented into this season of the ZHPL (it's first season) is a full, one weekend of Free Trades/Waiver Wire accommodation options. I think this would be a fair way to perhaps get some active players that are sitting on teams that have more then enough players to field ZHL/ZHPL squads, a chance to make an impact in the ZHPL playoffs. One question you might begin to ask yourself though is, what will be the line on who is fair to trade or not? etc. etc. blah bleh blooh lame.. O.K. I think I have a somewhat acceptable system that will help.
-The system is as follows ---->
  • Eligibility rule #1 : Player cannot be acquired by any means if they have started more than 5 ZHL matches at any point within season 2.
  • Eligibility rule #2 : If the player has started more then 3 ZHL matches at any point within season 2, this player will be deemed ineligible to be traded ONLY IF he has more than 10points (stats) and/or has a higher PUPG rating of 20.00... or something along these lines.
  • Eligibility rule #3 : Player A cannot be traded for Player B, if Player A/B is deemed to be of an extremely stronger quality, due to ownership friendships (sketchy trade deals to your buddy isn't allowed).

I think these rules adequately accomadate a rock bottom level of fairness for my trade weekend proposal to you Kyle. Now o talk quickly about my proposal, because I know this post is TL;DR :D ... I think perhaps in this upcoming weekend you open up this "ZHPL trading extravaganza" from midnight on Friday night, until midnight on Sunday night -- or something like that. Perhaps this will give a quick and strong incentive for ZHPL quality players to want to get there name out to a ZHPL team that peaks their interest.

All-in-all if you didn't read any of this... then 2 quick things. Don't team up on Kyle, he tries really hard... so keep all of your posts directed at Kyle in suggestion form, and not "..let us have some effing discretion... etc. etc." That helps nobody. And secondly, everyone keep in mind that this is a trial season for ZHPL, so you have to have patience with the commissioner, because he is trying his best to keep things fair.

Anyways peace out, I :twisted: lurv :twisted: me some ZH, and everyone needs to remember that this is a game, and it is meant to be fun!

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Re: Probe League Playoff Eligibility

Post by Kyle » Tue Oct 14, 2014 12:36 am

It's not like it's an arbitrary number of players for each team being prohibited from playing, daggius. Everyone knew on the day the probe league was announced that 4 ZHL games played was the max (and if they didn't... well, they could've read the rules). And I repeat myself yet again, if captains/owners want additional exception beyond that rule, ask, as the rule provides. Plead your case to the other teams to get the votes you need to allow your "reserve" ZHL players to play in the probe league playoffs. Don't just refuse to adhere to the rulebook and expect me to sit on my thumbs about it.

Rather than complaining about how the rules aren't fair to you, even though 7 other teams aren't complaining and are held to the exact same standard, figure out a way to work with them. Like Blitz said, this is a first-time experiment with this league, and I have no doubt Teroh will change things about the rules next season. If I were still commissioner next season, I know of a few rules I'd be changing based on experience this time around. I'd be surprised if there aren't some changes made between seasons 3 and 4 by whoever the commissioner is at that point. But for this season, these are the rules.
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Re: Probe League Playoff Eligibility

Post by Kurt_58 » Tue Oct 14, 2014 10:25 am

Blitz making a strong case for ZHL3 owner. Stay ez ZHL2 owners.