4v4 casted replay for zhl

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would you like 4v4 casted replay? (please read the thread before voting)

Yes, immediately cease live casting and cast from replays
14
42%
Maybe, try Crush's "find the xapos" solution for a week first
3
9%
No, games should always be cast live
14
42%
Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn
2
6%
 
Total votes: 33
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Teroh
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Re: 4v4 casted replay for zhl

Post by Teroh » Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:17 pm

Illusion wrote:If you really think that me giving up 2 free goals in 30 seconds to Maha and company was completely fine because at least you got enthusiasm from the casters then you are both idiots.
That would be a good point if I was lagging, but you fail to address the fact that a number of casters have not been the issue with lag, which is my entire point. Crush said it was one time ever, and the caster left. I have three seasons of evidence showing that my casting does not lag the game. My internet isn't even good. Rasp and I were claimed to be lagging the game last night, we weren't as admitted by stealth, and therefore there was no benefit in kicking the casters. So again, how am I the cause of you giving up 2 free goals?
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Re: 4v4 casted replay for zhl

Post by l)arkangel » Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:37 pm

@teroh: in that particular game, the lag actually did get much better after casters left.
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Re: 4v4 casted replay for zhl

Post by xNCrush » Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:50 pm

He's also referring to Mar Sara vs Kaldir which was casted by Tom, and as Dark said the casters leaving did solve the lag. It's the one documented case of it ever being the caster.
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Re: 4v4 casted replay for zhl

Post by daggius » Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:58 pm

all casters and benches do impact games. its not a question of whether they do, only a question of HOW MUCH do they influence the game. those with great computers and internet have a small impact, and vice versa.

please stop going in circles on this. acting as if casters dont impact the game is indefensible.
ken had to leave 2 zhl games as comentator this season alone which immediately sped up after he left. crush casted several games before optimizing his settings and there's even 1 game where he pauses after a few minutes, lowers his sc2 settings, then resumes, and the game clearly speeds up. these are a few examples of the many, many games on the twitch channel that have been incontrovertibly impacted by 3rd parties being involved in the game.

u really going to argue that prime having to forfeit a game due to unplayable lag for his whole team was not due to casters/benches?? stealth/blitzergs scenario the entire season? krazy/vapour had to leave the game 2 nites ago? all these people can join an inhouse right after cross server and play no problem..

plz just take the necessary steps to clean up the rules and make provisions to mitigate this. like actually use commisioner power to change the rules to minimize benches, minimize casters... disputing its existence is ludicrous

crush you are making patently false statements that are ridiculous. as i said there are at least 3+ more examples in the past month alone saved to twitch channel. go join any random inhouse and toggle your stream on off at random times in the match and see if the players notice (dont tell them when youre doing it). they will.
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Re: 4v4 casted replay for zhl

Post by Kurt_58 » Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:27 pm

Dude 5mb/s upload is amazing. Streaming takes 1.5mbs at max. Which is why when I'm at my campus apartment my 50-70 mbs upload is super overkill.

And daggs, players impact the game too, more than bench and casters considering they are using apm (autoclickers lag games due to the high amount of apm). With casters using awesome Internet it has always been the players fault. What are we to do ban certain players with bad Internet from playing in league games cuz they might "xapos" someone?
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Re: 4v4 casted replay for zhl

Post by krazymen » Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:39 pm

Kurt_58 wrote:
Dude 5mb/s upload is amazing. Streaming takes 1.5mbs at max. Which is why when I'm at my campus apartment my 50-70 mbs upload is super overkill.

And daggs, players impact the game too, more than bench and casters considering they are using apm (autoclickers lag games due to the high amount of apm). With casters using awesome Internet it has always been the players fault. What are we to do ban certain players with bad Internet from playing in league games cuz they might "xapos" someone?
we already said that the players lagging can play just fine an ih right after multiple times.
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Re: 4v4 casted replay for zhl

Post by Watermelon » Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:50 pm

Teroh wrote:Rasputin and I were edged out of the game tonight due to lag issues. When asked, different players gave different accounts: unchanged lag or moderately reduced at best. The next game, probe league, had an additional caster spectate, on top of the already supposely lagging Teroh and Rasputin, however no lag was reported by these players.
This is meaningless. You are comparing two different sets of players.
Teroh wrote:Rasp and I were claimed to be lagging the game last night, we weren't as admitted by stealth, and therefore there was no benefit in kicking the casters.?
Last I checked, Stealth is not aware of the lag that every single player in the game experiences. He is only aware of his own.


Since Teroh has starting linking sources to support his argument, I guess this discussion is getting more technical.

There is an underlying fallacy in reasoning circulating around here which most people call affirming a disjunct.

1. P or C
2. P
3. Therefore, not C

It's being used in this manner:

1. ZHL lag is produced from players or casters
2. ZHL lag is produced from players
3. Therefore, ZHL lag is not produced from casters


It is impossible to eliminate all lag for everybody at all times. And yes, games may still lag without casting. However, that doesn't mean casting doesn't contribute to the lag.
Watermelon wrote:ZHL games lag more than inhouses because of the following:

1. ZHL games have more players (bench)

2. ZHL games take place during peak internet usage hours (early evening)

3. ZHL games are casted
If you want live casting, and want to fix the lag issue, (imo) you're going to have to choose a different one of these to get rid of. So instead of arguing that casters don't have an impact on lag (which is absolutely false), present your alternative option for reducing lag in ZHL.
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Re: 4v4 casted replay for zhl

Post by daggius » Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:35 pm

Watermelon wrote:
Watermelon wrote:ZHL games lag more than inhouses because of the following:

1. ZHL games have more players (bench)

2. ZHL games take place during peak internet usage hours (early evening)

3. ZHL games are casted
If you want live casting, and want to fix the lag issue, (imo) you're going to have to choose a different one of these to get rid of. So instead of arguing that casters don't have an impact on lag (which is absolutely false), present your alternative option for reducing lag in ZHL.
I believe a good compromise would be:

-eliminate benches (unless both owners agree to allow it for that game)
-limit caster to 1 player (unless both owners agree to allow a cocaster for that game)

if either owner has a lag complaint after the game has commenced, then the bench players and or cocaster will leave. main caster should also toggle stream off for 1 minute during gameplay to see if he is causing the lag. and if he is, then he leaves too.


casting is important and fun but its still second in importance after having good gameplay
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Re: 4v4 casted replay for zhl

Post by l)arkangel » Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:57 pm

Anyone know about Skype's screen sharing? Might be able to use this in order to have 2 casters, but only one person in game. I don't think there's much of a delay...... ? IDK never used it before. Just an idea to reduce number of casters required in game.
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Re: 4v4 casted replay for zhl

Post by Kurt_58 » Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:08 pm

l)arkangel wrote:Anyone know about Skype's screen sharing? Might be able to use this in order to have 2 casters, but only one person in game. I don't think there's much of a delay...... ? IDK never used it before. Just an idea to reduce number of casters required in game.
Thought about that too but I don't think that would work. Skype is a resource hog. So you'd be doubling the amount of upload needed to keep the stream and skype afloat. Color casting isn't necessary for the most part, play by play casters have no problem filling in the 5-10 seconds after goals.
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