4v4 casted replay for zhl

would you like 4v4 casted replay? (please read the thread before voting)

Yes, immediately cease live casting and cast from replays
14
42%
Maybe, try Crush's "find the xapos" solution for a week first
3
9%
No, games should always be cast live
14
42%
Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn
2
6%
 
Total votes: 33
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RusH
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Re: 4v4 casted replay for zhl

Post by RusH » Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:00 pm

Go yetis! I never once doubted ya.
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Re: 4v4 casted replay for zhl

Post by daggius » Tue Jan 13, 2015 3:57 am

http://www.twitch.tv/zealothockey/b/610448171

7:32 teroh has 7 spikes
8:16 teroh has 4 spikes
8:33 teroh up to 6 spikes

objective evidence of teroh lagging ZHL as streamer hath been provided.
Teroh wrote: Step 1: Caster will show they are at less than 3 spikes.
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Re: 4v4 casted replay for zhl

Post by xNCrush » Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:06 pm

Except none of us felt it in the game... We have objective evidence Teroh had spikes, but no objective evidence he caused lag. Cya.
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Re: 4v4 casted replay for zhl

Post by krazymen » Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:15 pm

I did not feel any lag during the whole game except a few spikes at the start. This may just prove even more the problem with off server in ZHL if you arent on the server close to you you might end up experiencing lag that makes no fucking sense gg wp.
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Re: 4v4 casted replay for zhl

Post by stealthmeh » Tue Jan 13, 2015 3:52 pm

krazymen wrote:I did not feel any lag during the whole game except a few spikes at the start. This may just prove even more the problem with off server in ZHL if you arent on the server close to you you might end up experiencing lag that makes no fucking sense gg wp.
most of the ppl in the game were east or central and playing on central. East/Central players do not suffer from xapos effect on central server other than maybe slight chop increase. Lag resistance is always high on your home server.

Also i didnt watch the game cause vap and zach didnt show but unless teroh was spiking most of the game its unlikely to do a tone to even the other west players.

For example in my game against Redlings WW said he had 12 spikes and my entire east team had no lag while enemy team was complaining about lag. Only off server players have significant notice to spikers/Xapos.
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Re: 4v4 casted replay for zhl

Post by Teroh » Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:37 pm

daggius wrote:http://www.twitch.tv/zealothockey/b/610448171

7:32 teroh has 7 spikes
8:16 teroh has 4 spikes
8:33 teroh up to 6 spikes

objective evidence of teroh lagging ZHL as streamer hath been provided.
Teroh wrote: Step 1: Caster will show they are at less than 3 spikes.
xNCrush wrote:Except none of us felt it in the game... We have objective evidence Teroh had spikes, but no objective evidence he caused lag. Cya.
krazymen wrote:I did not feel any lag during the whole game except a few spikes at the start. This may just prove even more the problem with off server in ZHL if you arent on the server close to you you might end up experiencing lag that makes no fucking sense gg wp.
Pretty well summarized already. Don't forget that all the lag complaints ended once RaVeN left the game. Essentially, this is telling us that local spikes may not even be relevant to if you are causing the game lag or not. Therefore, it's actually the opposite of your intention: The spike threshold may need to be raised.
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Re: 4v4 casted replay for zhl

Post by wawmoose » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:53 pm

I should mention there was delay throughout that entire game for me, but most likely due to cross-server (my east games seem random, sometimes very responsive, sometimes 1-2 second delay, most times somewhere in between)
Raven leaving fixed any spikes, but also kwakster lagged out at the end too, but his lag only seemed to affect him.
Crush is very close to me so I think we had similar/identical delay, and if we did, then it was just the server, not the caster. Perhaps Crush can back me up on this.
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Re: 4v4 casted replay for zhl

Post by daggius » Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:01 pm

players: here is subjective evidence of lag

casters: your evidence is too subjective, bring objective evidence

players: here is objective evidence of lag

casters: your objective evidence is no good, bring subjective evidence
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Re: 4v4 casted replay for zhl

Post by Watermelon » Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:10 pm

Teroh wrote:
daggius wrote:http://www.twitch.tv/zealothockey/b/610448171

7:32 teroh has 7 spikes
8:16 teroh has 4 spikes
8:33 teroh up to 6 spikes

objective evidence of teroh lagging ZHL as streamer hath been provided.
Teroh wrote: Step 1: Caster will show they are at less than 3 spikes.
xNCrush wrote:Except none of us felt it in the game... We have objective evidence Teroh had spikes, but no objective evidence he caused lag. Cya.
krazymen wrote:I did not feel any lag during the whole game except a few spikes at the start. This may just prove even more the problem with off server in ZHL if you arent on the server close to you you might end up experiencing lag that makes no fucking sense gg wp.
Pretty well summarized already. Don't forget that all the lag complaints ended once RaVeN left the game. Essentially, this is telling us that local spikes may not even be relevant to if you are causing the game lag or not. Therefore, it's actually the opposite of your intention: The spike threshold may need to be raised.
Or perhaps the casting was causing RaVeN to lag, thus lagging the game


ZHL games are significantly laggier than regular inhouses
If you fail to recognize this, and do something about it, ZHL will die entirely.
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Re: 4v4 casted replay for zhl

Post by Teroh » Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:39 pm

daggius wrote:players: here is subjective evidence of lag

casters: your evidence is too subjective, bring objective evidence

players: here is objective evidence of lag

casters: your objective evidence is no good, bring subjective evidence
players: here is subjective evidence of lag
casters: your evidence is too subjective, bring objective evidence
daggius: here is objective evidence of spikes
players who were actually playing the game: "Except none of us felt it in the game" "I did not feel any lag during the whole game except a few spikes at the start"
Watermelon wrote:Or perhaps the casting was causing RaVeN to lag, thus lagging the game
This is definitely possible, but a significantly more complex answer than the more straightforward explanation that RaVeN himself was lagging, which is consistent with krazy's account, reporting that the lag spikes were only during the start. The evidence lines up better.
Watermelon wrote: ZHL games are significantly laggier than regular inhouses
If you fail to recognize this, and do something about it, ZHL will die entirely.
This is absolutely true, and I have been working to help discover the source of this lag. Since we have yet to find the source, we can't come up with a solution except to essentially make ZHL into essentially what the night league is already: No casting, no benches, only play games in the morning or late night when national internet use is low. You come from a background of science, you should understand this as well as I do: Make a hypothesis, test it using what variables you can manipulate while controlling others, come to a conclusion, test your conclusions for repetition of results, and finally create new hypotheses based upon what you've learned. This is why I have been so adamant about testing how my stream, spikes, and interactions with others have an impact on lag. Unfortunately, I cannot control how others choose to test themselves, or participate in my observations. Streamers were initially hypothesized to be the cause of the lag, and a majority of my work has indicated that it is possible, but generally not the case.

I'm failing to understand how so many fingers can get pointed at:
who is a Xapos,
who/what streamers cause lag,
what server causes lag,
what time of day causes lag,
claims "there were 6 spikes by the caster so he MUST have been lagging" despite the accounts of the players in the game,

and yet there has really been minimal effort to truly test, gain evidence, and come to conclusions about why this lag has been happening beyond guesses. If the community as a whole would be happier changing to uncasted games at non-peak times without benches, I'd be happy to make the changes. However, the poll shows disapproval to just one of these changes.
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