TRADE ROFL

User avatar
OptimusReim
Posts: 200
Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:47 pm
Battle.net Name: Reimer
Battle.net Char Code: 367
Battle.net Server: NA
Location: Toronto

Re: TRADE ROFL

Post by OptimusReim » Sun May 17, 2015 1:46 am

l)arkangel wrote:Teams can still play for dignity , probe. Prohibiting them from any trades at all is unreasonable.
The way I view this situation is, the obvious problem is ZHL talent from an eliminated team (Braxis) is pooled onto a single team (Char). At the root of all of this, that is the main disagreement because it ruins the balance of the league.

It works for Braxis because
1. They're already eliminated
2. Their ZHL players are ineligible and useless for Probe League
3. They get an improved Probe team
4. It gives their solid ZHL players a chance to win the cup still

It works for Char because
1. They don't care about Probe league
2. They get an important 3rd man addition that they missed out on during the FA draft
3. They get a West starting goalie

For those reasons it's obvious Navy and TK can't be blamed. They did what was best for them in this situation. Did they exploit the lack of regulation in rules? Perhaps, but it wasn't in the rules yet.

If we get past that they aren't cheaters then we can look at how to improve the league in the future. In my mind I see a few different solutions.

Solution 1:
Bring back the Points system. In ZHL season 1 (the only other full season of ZH I've participated in) players were assigned a skill level rating during the entry draft, and through free agency. For example a first round player was worth 6 stars or something. A team could only total like 20 stars so it would be impossible to field a team that had 4, 1st round (6 star) level players.

This works because it creates a balance across the teams in the league. It also fits really well with all the artwork we've been seeing on the forums of player ratings. Although it's kind of subjective. If this was implemented there would be no way the Char Meleons could field a team of TK, Crush, Tom, Zach, LK, & co. they would have too many 1st and 2nd rounders.

Solution 2:
This one is the most obvious, move the trade deadline earlier. This way every team is still capable of making it to the playoffs. It would discourage team burning (like what Navy is doing) and would make the trades more impactful.

Solution 3:
And my final solution (hah a hitler joke) is to make the trade deadline BEFORE the FA draft. This gives teams low in the standings another bargaining chip. Since teams and owners don't carry over to the next season, besides their starting roster an owner doesn't have much to play with in terms of trades. But if the FA draft spots could be traded in exchange for other spots or players, we might see more activity and options available.

You can't stop stupid trades. In season 1 Wildifre gave up Rasputin for nothing. And TK was traded to Maharishi, Vapour and Peter D'Lai when all they needed was a goalie. But I don't think Navy had the intention of fucking up the balance of the league by giving the middle of the pack Char team 2 of his starters. I think using any or all of those 3 suggestions might help it, and I'm all ears to hear other suggestions or critiques.

TL;DR

TK and Provy aren't bad guys. The trade isn't against the rules but is an obvious exploit. Bringing back the point system, moving up the trade deadline, and being able to trade FA draft picks might make this never happen again.
Image
Halogasm Halogasm Halogasm Halogasm Halogasm Halogasm Halogasm Halogasm Halogasm Halogasm Halogasm Halogasm Halogasm
User avatar
Watermelon
Posts: 1374
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:34 pm
Battle.net Name: Watermelon
Battle.net Char Code: 1918
Battle.net Server: NA

Re: TRADE ROFL

Post by Watermelon » Sun May 17, 2015 2:10 am

Kurt_58 wrote:Provy wanted better probe players for ZHPL playoffs.
TK wanted better players for ZHL playoffs.
A trade happened.

Thats really all there is to trades, which people are always often mad about. The Vapour trade from Anglefire had the same kind of backlash, yet was never vetoed. If you want all a teams talent to come from only the initial Draft, I disagree. FA draft and trading are also important phases to being an owner and should not be tampered with.

As much as this trade fucks over my team, I'm all for it. It's legal according to the rules and it benefits both teams in different ways. Provys ZHL players had significantly lower value to his own team than to others due to him being ruled out of playoffs. Therefore he had high incentive to trade them, as he should.

I don't think it should be vetoed because it's legal, no rules were really bent here, it adds values on both teams, and you're basically saying Probe League doesn't count and that you can't make moves to improve your probe team.
Watermelon gave ownership to Stealth
Stealth wanted more probe players for ZHPL playoffs
Perplex wanted better players for ZHL playoffs
A trade happened

Thats really all there is to trades, which people are always often mad about. The Vapour trade from Anglefire had the same kind of backlash, yet was never vetoed. If you want all a teams talent to come from only the initial Draft, I disagree. FA draft and trading are also important phases to being an owner and should not be tampered with.

As much as this trade makes my team OP, I'm all for it. It's legal according to the rules and it benefits both teams in different ways

I don't think it should be vetoed because it's legal, no rules were really bent here, it adds values on both teams, and you're basically saying Probe League doesn't count and that you can't make moves to improve your probe team.
Kurt_58 wrote:Provy literally got trade offers from multiple teams for weeks. If you think this was a give away you're crazy. Provy got the max value he could get for what he had. If you're angry about the trade then you should only blame your selves for not trading more to get his players. That's the point of trading.
Stealth literally got trade offers from multiple teams for weeks. If you think this was a give away you're crazy. Stealth got the max value he could get for what he had. If you're angry about the trade then you should only blame your selves for not trading more to get his players. That's the point of trading.
S4 Champ | Playoff MVP | "Best Owner"
EUDL7 Champ
BaseTradeTV ZH3K Winner
record for most goals in a ZHL game: http://www.zealothockey.net/event/450/
User avatar
Kurt_58
Legend
Posts: 615
Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:39 pm
Battle.net Name: Kurt
Battle.net Char Code: 638
Battle.net Server: NA
Location: Hell. It's cold here.

Re: TRADE ROFL

Post by Kurt_58 » Sun May 17, 2015 3:31 am

Me and water and blitz debated on this. Some words were said. We disagree respectfully with each other. Good luck deciding Dark. Everyone is going to hate you no matter what. Cept me kid :)
User avatar
forumusername
Posts: 721
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:40 am
Battle.net Name: kwakster
Battle.net Char Code: 0
Battle.net Server: NA

Re: TRADE ROFL

Post by forumusername » Sun May 17, 2015 3:38 am

#1 points in probe league looking for the team that will have the most stacked probe line up, PM me~
Image
Image
[+] ruckLUL
Image

LF mediation
Ruckle
Posts: 193
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:31 am
Battle.net Name: Ruckle
Battle.net Char Code: 627
Battle.net Server: NA

Re: TRADE ROFL

Post by Ruckle » Sun May 17, 2015 3:58 am

pls veto bs trade
Image
User avatar
xNCrush
Posts: 383
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 4:14 am
Battle.net Name: Crush
Battle.net Char Code: 1661
Battle.net Server: NA

Re: TRADE ROFL

Post by xNCrush » Sun May 17, 2015 4:43 am

This thread isn't going anywhere. We'll let the management do their thing and that will be that. Any subsequent threads will also be locked. Both sides have made some good posts and one side has made one terrible post. Watermelon, honestly disappointed.

I'll add one last thought. Braxis is in a unique position in that we have no game breakers on our team, perhaps with the exception of Peter, but Peter needs the right pairing in order to truly be effective. Anyways, we're talking about me and tom here. Both of us have had far from successful seasons individually. Braxis literally has nothing to lose by sending away the headliners. There is no respect to be saved for Braxis. The only other team that is even close to being in the same boat is New Folsum, but they still have Dark/Maha/Bulba and Halo who's having an outstanding season despite his team's record. They can go out with respect if they sweep the remainder of their games.

So all you people who are saying crap like Watermelon's shitpost, it's not the same thing. If we go with Watermelon's example, Shakuras has sacked a team that is arguably favored to win the championship. Why the fuck would they do that. They wouldn't. It would be fucking stupid. Clear collusion between owners would obviously be frowned upon. What TK and Provy are attempting is not collusion. Provy gets a shot at the probe title, which is all he stands to gain right now. TK gets some solid, but hardly game changing stand-ins on their off server, which is kinda fair considering they didn't get much out of the FA draft. Meleons west team will still have a tough go against Shakuras and Mar Sara (and any other team, you all compete hard).

So let's stop this silly talk about the teams that are going to make the playoffs doing something completely unnecessary and stupid.

But sure, let's talk about New Folsum. They are in a similar position in that they are mathematically eliminated. So nothing is stopping Maha from stepping down and someone else shipping Maha, Dark, and bulb off to teams that are in the hunt. You know what? Go for it. If you can make a valuable trade proposal that isn't flagrantly giving a free player to an already strong team, then try and make those deals.

Obviously next season the trade deadline will be moved up so it's less clear which teams are going to be out so that flagrant abuse of this (lack of a) rule isn't an issue anymore. (Or the two last place teams won't have such a rough go for the first 10 games ... lel)

Right now it's just a matter of whether Dark and the other league admins feel that this is "flagrant abuse" of the lack of a rule.

I knew this trade would ruffle some feathers, but you guys are going full retard over it. Calm down. If it gets gunned down, so be it. I'll live out my days as a CUUUUUUUUUDA this season. If it goes through, start messaging New Folsum to see what you can get. Honestly, the more elite players we have going into the playoffs the better in my opinion.

/thread
User avatar
l)arkangel
Posts: 1106
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:50 am
Battle.net Name: Darkangel
Battle.net Char Code: 1457
Battle.net Server: NA
Location: Troll City

Re: TRADE ROFL

Post by l)arkangel » Sun May 17, 2015 10:54 am

Leave it to zh to have a bigger shitshow than the 30 second kegstanding, fireball o'clock, hours of flipcup, full contact football, 10 foot tall and 8 foot wide bonfire, keg tossing, blowjob in front of the parents shitshow I went to last night. I will continue seeking guidance at the 30th chapter of the House of Holy Kyle to help me make this decision. It Will be posted shortly.
*S5 Champion*

Player Profile
User avatar
xNCrush
Posts: 383
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 4:14 am
Battle.net Name: Crush
Battle.net Char Code: 1661
Battle.net Server: NA

Re: TRADE ROFL

Post by xNCrush » Sun May 17, 2015 2:55 pm

Despite my frustration from listening the the uproar about the trade all night, I still responded poorly to the situation last night. I shouldn't have mod-edited Water's post with bm, that was pretty dumb. Water, I've apologized via PM, but I'll apologize here too. I still think your argument is invalid because you're comparing apples and oranges using the same argument, but I shouldn't have done what I did. It won't happen again.
Locked