Inconsistent Commissioner ruling

User avatar
Marker
Posts: 603
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:05 am
Battle.net Name: Marker
Battle.net Char Code: 164
Battle.net Server: NA

Re: Inconsistent Commissioner ruling

Post by Marker » Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:59 pm

Teroh wrote:
Watermelon wrote:IMO if HALOUNSC isn't allowed to play probe then neither is fancypants, for the same exact reason.
imo I'd rather not see two ZHL caliber goalies playing their strong position in probe. That doesn't seem to be in the spirit of probe league.
If only you had the power...
Image

PGP KEY

Code: Select all

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0BO0QBS9-l_SW03alNQMnF6Z0U/view?usp=sharing
User avatar
Teroh
Legend
Posts: 479
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:47 pm
Battle.net Name: Teroh
Battle.net Char Code: 773
Battle.net Server: NA

Re: Inconsistent Commissioner ruling

Post by Teroh » Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:18 am

Marker wrote:
Teroh wrote:
Watermelon wrote:IMO if HALOUNSC isn't allowed to play probe then neither is fancypants, for the same exact reason.
imo I'd rather not see two ZHL caliber goalies playing their strong position in probe. That doesn't seem to be in the spirit of probe league.
If only you had the power...
Yeah I should've been more harsh in retrospect
User avatar
forumusername
Posts: 721
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:40 am
Battle.net Name: kwakster
Battle.net Char Code: 0
Battle.net Server: NA

Re: Inconsistent Commissioner ruling

Post by forumusername » Thu Feb 04, 2016 3:09 pm

daggius 1 maha 0
Image
Image
[+] ruckLUL
Image

LF mediation
User avatar
poopeybutt
Posts: 265
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:02 pm
Battle.net Name: cowsmoke
Battle.net Char Code: 1234
Battle.net Server: KR

Re: Inconsistent Commissioner ruling

Post by poopeybutt » Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:46 pm

funny that fancypants actually had more zhl games than halo and he was allowed to play probe playoffs in net, but when halo wanted to teroh threw a fit.
I might be on in a week or so...
User avatar
daggius
Posts: 442
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:53 am
Battle.net Name: daggius
Battle.net Char Code: 0
Battle.net Server: NA

Re: Inconsistent Commissioner ruling

Post by daggius » Thu Feb 04, 2016 6:35 pm

Teroh is consistently inconsistent. When I was owner in season 3, my team was in a similar position in the probe playoffs. Perplex had started for his ZHL the entire season and was not eligible to play probe according to the rules, yet Teroh gave him a "special pass" to play. A real probe player gets benched so that Perplex can play, despite us pointing at the rules document and being like "uh.. no.. thats not how it works". Basically if Teroh thinks you suck you are clear to play in probe but if he thinks you are good you aren't. Spirit of probe.

Fastforward to this season. Halo, a SIXTH ROUNDER who has only played 5 ZHL games, is somehow disallowed from playing in probe. Sixth rounders are the definition of probe league. Hilariously, the goalie for the other team, has even played more regular season ZHL than Halo, which is defn of probe eligibility, but Teroh has no problem with it.

Teroh tries to come up with some argument that we're trying to cheat probe by using imba players. Such a ludicrous argument. We don't even bother to use our best probe player, Droplets, who is eligible to play. Not to mention that as far as goalies go on the team, Halo is basically the fourth string goalie. We have had three other people play goalie this season that were all drafted before him! Daggius (3rd round), CountryKen (4th round), Squid (5th round)...

The point of the rules page is that you don't make ridiculously biased and stupid choices like this. The commish should not be coming in and making subjective judgement calls when an objective measure is already in place that covers it. Obviously Halo is legal to play and there is no question about it. Teroh made a mistake and the game should have been replayed.

Teroh is an outstanding caster and should stick to that. As far as being an unbiased and sensible arbitrator, no WAY.
User avatar
JMoney
Posts: 525
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:34 am
Battle.net Name:
Battle.net Char Code: 0
Battle.net Server: NA

Re: Inconsistent Commissioner ruling

Post by JMoney » Thu Feb 04, 2016 8:18 pm

Just so we're clear - the goalie who has been a ZHL starter for 3 seasons, including a ZHL championship with outstanding stats (1.66 GAA, 83% save) is being directly compared to a new player who was a ZHL starter out of necessity (terrible draft) on the merit of draft position and games played?

This seems exactly like why the spirit of probe rule was added to the rule book, it's dumbfounding that it wasn't exercised to prevent Halo from goaltending in ZHPL playoffs. Is Halo a probe goalie? No. He was under-drafted because 1) he wanted to skate and 2) he said he was going to miss almost all Sundays (AKA every playoff game).


daggius wrote: We don't even bother to use our best probe player, Droplets, who is eligible to play. Not to mention that as far as goalies go on the team, Halo is basically the fourth string goalie. We have had three other people play goalie this season that were all drafted before him! Daggius (3rd round), CountryKen (4th round), Squid (5th round)...
This is hilariously irrelevant. Droplets and Squid wouldn't show up even if they were asked to. Halo is by far your best goalie.
User avatar
daggius
Posts: 442
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:53 am
Battle.net Name: daggius
Battle.net Char Code: 0
Battle.net Server: NA

Re: Inconsistent Commissioner ruling

Post by daggius » Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:04 pm

What about bluedream? He's somehow just shitty enough to fit in the "spirit of probe" even though maha drafted him 4th round to be his starting ZHL skater? What about the probe teams that are comprised of elite european talent? They didn't get spirit of probe'd either. Its a weak argument that Teroh even flip flopped on himself once he realized that Halo only had 5 gp.
User avatar
Blitz
Posts: 1001
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:34 pm
Battle.net Name: Blitzerg
Battle.net Char Code: 713
Battle.net Server: NA

Re: Inconsistent Commissioner ruling

Post by Blitz » Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:22 pm

daggius wrote:What about bluedream? He's somehow just shitty enough to fit in the "spirit of probe" even though maha drafted him 4th round to be his starting ZHL skater? What about the probe teams that are comprised of elite european talent? They didn't get spirit of probe'd either. Its a weak argument that Teroh even flip flopped on himself once he realized that Halo only had 5 gp.
Illegal ZHL players playing in probe are > "Elite European Talent". Check Aiur vs Redstone.
Image

The only two links you ever need to click:
https://puu.sh/zFTwQ/57cfb6dd4f.png
viewtopic.php?f=57&t=2556
User avatar
JMoney
Posts: 525
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:34 am
Battle.net Name:
Battle.net Char Code: 0
Battle.net Server: NA

Re: Inconsistent Commissioner ruling

Post by JMoney » Thu Feb 04, 2016 9:32 pm

Bluedream:

Season 3: 2 ZHL games
Season 4: 5 ZHL games
Season 5: 3 ZHL games
Season 6: 3 ZHL games

Nothing in his history suggest he's a ZHL starter. He was drafted as a starter, but that didn't really pan out. I wouldn't use Maha's draft as an example of things done right either.

The difference in that example is that if Bluedream isn't a probe starter, he doesn't play at all. Halo is a proven ZHL starter, who will likely continue to start in future seasons.

A much better example is Art on the Snowmen. That should be another veto in the "spirit of probe"

I don't think the Mar Sara vs Redstone decision should be overruled. However, this is almost identical to Marker starting in probe last season, and I think it should be handled similarly.
fancypants
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:29 pm
Battle.net Name: fancypants
Battle.net Char Code: 1399
Battle.net Server: NA

Re: Inconsistent Commissioner ruling

Post by fancypants » Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:10 pm

daggius wrote:Teroh is consistently inconsistent. When I was owner in season 3, my team was in a similar position in the probe playoffs. Perplex had started for his ZHL the entire season and was not eligible to play probe according to the rules, yet Teroh gave him a "special pass" to play. A real probe player gets benched so that Perplex can play, despite us pointing at the rules document and being like "uh.. no.. thats not how it works". Basically if Teroh thinks you suck you are clear to play in probe but if he thinks you are good you aren't. Spirit of probe.
I went and checked and Perplex played 8/14 games as goalie in S3 and then skated in the probe playoffs. That fact that you think Perplex shouldn't have played back then does a pretty good job in contradicting your current argument.
daggius wrote:Fastforward to this season. Halo, a SIXTH ROUNDER who has only played 5 ZHL games, is somehow disallowed from playing in probe. Sixth rounders are the definition of probe league. Hilariously, the goalie for the other team, has even played more regular season ZHL than Halo, which is defn of probe eligibility, but Teroh has no problem with it.
Basically what Jmoney said. Halo's draft value was lowered because of poor attendance and he wanted to skate. I was drafted 8th round and went 1-5 in ZHL with a .619 save%, whereas HALO had the top save% and GAA in the league. Not to mention, HALO just won a championship as a starting goalie. The eligibility rule as it is listed is purposefully subjective in nature to prevent manipulation of the 6GP rule. If you think I should be ineligible because I'm too good then it means you based your opinion subjectively on skill seen elsewhere rather than objective stats, which is another great contradiction because you have such an issue with Teroh's subjective approach.
daggius wrote:Teroh tries to come up with some argument that we're trying to cheat probe by using imba players. Such a ludicrous argument. We don't even bother to use our best probe player, Droplets, who is eligible to play. Not to mention that as far as goalies go on the team, Halo is basically the fourth string goalie. We have had three other people play goalie this season that were all drafted before him! Daggius (3rd round), CountryKen (4th round), Squid (5th round)...
Ken was offline and I've never seen squid and rarely see droplets. Safe to say it wasn't your decision not to play them. Also I noticed you had played goalie in an earlier round of the probe playoffs. Since you're now considering yourself a third round goalie do you want those games to be forfeit now?
daggius wrote:The point of the rules page is that you don't make ridiculously biased and stupid choices like this. The commish should not be coming in and making subjective judgement calls when an objective measure is already in place that covers it. Obviously Halo is legal to play and there is no question about it. Teroh made a mistake and the game should have been replayed.
the rules wrote:Any exceptions can only be made by the Commissioner with the goal of preserving Probe League integrity.
“The Spirit of Probe League Rule” – This is an intentionally vague rule intended to be enforced by League Management for the best interests of Probe League. It allows application of unwritten rules and/or intentional non-enforcement of existing rules to allow for maximum operation of Probe League, assuming that the ruling is somehow benefiting Probe League as a whole.
I repeat:
the rules wrote:Any exceptions can only be made by the Commissioner with the goal of preserving Probe League integrity.
“The Spirit of Probe League Rule” – This is an INTENTIONALLY VAGUE RULE intended to be enforced by League Management for the best interests of Probe League. It allows APPLICATION OF UNWRITTEN RULES and/or intentional non-enforcement of existing rules to allow for maximum operation of Probe League, assuming that the ruling is somehow benefiting Probe League as a whole.
You had your win and could've just shut up and I'd have let it go, but now that you're giving Teroh shit for this and passionately complaining about a series you won I can't really take it anymore. Personally I didn't mind that Halo played in net and enjoyed going up against one of the top goalies. The series was still in our control and we blew it. I also don't want to upset halo, the music, alassau, and tijo because they're friends and good people. But I'm really not a fan of your constant bitching and bullshit, daggius.

All this being said, the only grounds I would actually want to replay any games on is that the first goal of game 2 was a glitch and wound up costing my team the game. I believe this is a more than reasonable request all things considered.
Locked