A Solution for Probe League

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Re: A Solution for Probe League

Post by Mets » Thu Jun 09, 2016 1:00 am

percial wrote:
Mets wrote:
Spartan670 wrote:6 probe teams and never had a watermelon-like owner who dedicated that much of his free time to develop younger talent. Kelvin, Rush and Moose encouraged inhouse and team practices though.

Some of our friends from the EU server are ZHL caliber players even with ping against them. Because of ping and active NA rosters, I feel owners rather have them play probe and getting rekt myself by EU stars on probe, I had nothing against them. Moose and Rig did a great job encouraging EU to play on NA servers. It brought our communities together. I agree with Dark with them playing ZHL..If they are ZHL caliber.

-I like Met's idea but please keep "Probe League".
-Have the same League managers for both leagues. Call it something else for all I care.
-ZHPL Commissioner should be appointed by league managers recommendation and vote.
-Probe would be a great time to develop new casters.
-More ZHPL games to help rotate players. If not, play best of 3 games.
- +1 Dark's recommendation on ZHL/ZHPL eligibility (ZHL can't play ZHPL but ZHPL can play ZHL. Should not restrict him from coming back to ZHPL playoffs a better man).
-Let me Probe Owner. (My ZH Resume says I am an experienced Pub League owner who blew all my auction money to acquire twodeuce. Who could only play once a week for like 3 hours. Perfect Pub League season 0w - 0L )
I think a best Best of 3 series with a 5 minute intermission between games would be a great idea under this system. It'd give the team coaches a chance to quickly go over things that might have went wrong during the game and give them an opportunity to correct their mistakes.
I strongly agree that we should have at least two games for probe with 5-10 minute intermissio.

I also would like to say... It's easy for ZHLers to sit there and say "we don't need casters for probe"..
I strongly disagree.

Part of the joy of playing in a league, is knowing that it's not just a glorified IH. If casters are not casting probe games it would kill the experience for a lot of players, myself included. I think its a huge mistake to try and remove casting from a developmental league, where most of its players will never see a lick of ZHL notoriety, exposure.. And it's just a great way to make probes feel excluded....
#CastProbe
I think if there were less (maybe 2 less) Probe teams, casting the matches would not be much of an issue.
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Re: A Solution for Probe League

Post by rerecalf » Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:30 am

Blitz wrote:
Cubs wrote:I don't know if Mets is the only player to break into the ZHL as of recent, Yoda made a pretty quick jump and now he's arguably the best defender and Sir also went from probe hero to ZHL star in a similar fashion.
Just to clarify it took yoda 2 full seasons before he became elite in his third season. He also learned the majority of his fundamentals from me in season 5 when I spent 50+ hours coaching him. He didn't even want to be a defender until I told him he had the potential to be a great defender. So no he didn't really have a quick jump, he also may be the best defender (not sure I don't play anymore, but if so its only because me/Guer don't play much anymore... I haven't played in a month or so). So I think the point that mets is making is that he is the only decent player to blossom on his own in the timeframe of one season (which is 100% truth).
I'm the best defender because i can pass
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Re: A Solution for Probe League

Post by spach15 » Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:23 pm

A suggestion would be having 2 owners during the draft, one for zhl, one for probe. I think this would be a good start to improve probe
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Re: A Solution for Probe League

Post by Spartan670 » Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:18 am

mlgbx wrote:I agree with everything Bruce posted and Bruce please draft me.
1st round!
percial wrote:
I strongly agree that we should have at least two games for probe with 5-10 minute intermissio.

I also would like to say... It's easy for ZHLers to sit there and say "we don't need casters for probe"..
I strongly disagree.

Part of the joy of playing in a league, is knowing that it's not just a glorified IH. If casters are not casting probe games it would kill the experience for a lot of players, myself included. I think its a huge mistake to try and remove casting from a developmental league, where most of its players will never see a lick of ZHL notoriety, exposure.. And it's just a great way to make probes feel excluded....
#CastProbe
Preach it brotha man!
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Re: A Solution for Probe League

Post by Cafca » Sat Jun 11, 2016 1:09 pm

Mets wrote:
Spartan670 wrote:6 probe teams and never had a watermelon-like owner who dedicated that much of his free time to develop younger talent. Kelvin, Rush and Moose encouraged inhouse and team practices though.

Some of our friends from the EU server are ZHL caliber players even with ping against them. Because of ping and active NA rosters, I feel owners rather have them play probe and getting rekt myself by EU stars on probe, I had nothing against them. Moose and Rig did a great job encouraging EU to play on NA servers. It brought our communities together. I agree with Dark with them playing ZHL..If they are ZHL caliber.

-I like Met's idea but please keep "Probe League".
-Have the same League managers for both leagues. Call it something else for all I care.
-ZHPL Commissioner should be appointed by league managers recommendation and vote.
-Probe would be a great time to develop new casters.
-More ZHPL games to help rotate players. If not, play best of 3 games.
- +1 Dark's recommendation on ZHL/ZHPL eligibility (ZHL can't play ZHPL but ZHPL can play ZHL. Should not restrict him from coming back to ZHPL playoffs a better man).
-Let me Probe Owner. (My ZH Resume says I am an experienced Pub League owner who blew all my auction money to acquire twodeuce. Who could only play once a week for like 3 hours. Perfect Pub League season 0w - 0L )
I think a best Best of 3 series with a 5 minute intermission between games would be a great idea under this system. It'd give the team coaches a chance to quickly go over things that might have went wrong during the game and give them an opportunity to correct their mistakes.
Are you both suggesting that a best-of-3 series should be played in the regular season?
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Re: A Solution for Probe League

Post by SpruceTree » Sat Jun 11, 2016 1:29 pm

Hi. I don't think probe league and zhl should be separate because it would be unfair to the zhl bench players who would maybe play 2 or 3 zhl games but would thrive in probe league.
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Re: A Solution for Probe League

Post by Cafca » Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:25 pm

Cafca wrote:
Mets wrote:
Spartan670 wrote:6 probe teams and never had a watermelon-like owner who dedicated that much of his free time to develop younger talent. Kelvin, Rush and Moose encouraged inhouse and team practices though.

Some of our friends from the EU server are ZHL caliber players even with ping against them. Because of ping and active NA rosters, I feel owners rather have them play probe and getting rekt myself by EU stars on probe, I had nothing against them. Moose and Rig did a great job encouraging EU to play on NA servers. It brought our communities together. I agree with Dark with them playing ZHL..If they are ZHL caliber.

-I like Met's idea but please keep "Probe League".
-Have the same League managers for both leagues. Call it something else for all I care.
-ZHPL Commissioner should be appointed by league managers recommendation and vote.
-Probe would be a great time to develop new casters.
-More ZHPL games to help rotate players. If not, play best of 3 games.
- +1 Dark's recommendation on ZHL/ZHPL eligibility (ZHL can't play ZHPL but ZHPL can play ZHL. Should not restrict him from coming back to ZHPL playoffs a better man).
-Let me Probe Owner. (My ZH Resume says I am an experienced Pub League owner who blew all my auction money to acquire twodeuce. Who could only play once a week for like 3 hours. Perfect Pub League season 0w - 0L )
I think a best Best of 3 series with a 5 minute intermission between games would be a great idea under this system. It'd give the team coaches a chance to quickly go over things that might have went wrong during the game and give them an opportunity to correct their mistakes.
Are you both suggesting that a best-of-3 series should be played in the regular season?
If you are both suggesting a best-of-3 series should be played, then I must say, bad idea. Every team must play the exact same number of regular season games. If a best-of-anything was installed in the regular season for matchups, then it would allow some teams to give their probes extra playtime, which translates into more chances to prove themselves, while other teams would not be able to give their probes as much playtime. Also, with some teams playing more regular season games than others, in the event of a scoring race between 2 or more players, the player on the team that ended up playing more games would have an unfair advantage of being on a team that played extra games, therefore more chances to score points than their rival on the other team.

Example: Team A in the regular season plays against their first 3 opponents in the regular season. All matchups are best-of-3. Team A beats each team 2-0, therefore, have played 6 games total.

Team B does the same thing, but wins the first 2 best-of-3 matches 2-1, while losing the last one 2-1. Team B has played 9 games.

By the time each team has finished facing opponents #1, #2, and #3, Team B will have played 3 more games than Team A. Team B's players will very likely finish with more points than team A's players by the time they have both finished playing their first 3 opponents.

Another problem with having best-of-anythings in the regular season, would be how it would ruin the points system in the standings (3 for regulation win, 2 for OT/SO win, 1 for OT/SO loss, 0 for regulation loss).

Example: Remember how Team A defeated each opponent in their best-of-3 series 2-0? They won all of those games in regulation. They collected 18 points total, and hold a record of 6-0-0-0-0

Another team, called Team C, finished their first 3 best-of-3 rounds each with a record of 2-1. All of Team C's wins were in regulation, and all of their losses were in overtime. They collect 18 points from the wins, and 3 from the overtime losses, therefore having earned 21 points. Team C's record is obviously not as good as Team A's, but in the standings, Team C would be ahead, because they have more points. The points system we created in season 2 and still use today was made so that teams that won in regulation got a bigger reward for beating their opponents in less time (no OT required), while overtime + shootout games would recognise that both teams played at an equal level, and that anyone could have won it.

My suggestion, is to replace the best-of-3 idea, with a 2 game idea.

Instead of having the two teams play a best-of-3 series, have each team play a definite number of games. It could be 2, or 3 (or anything really, but I don't think we should go beyond this). Teams could still have the 5 minute intermission for the coache(s) and team leader(s) to go over anything that went well, and anything that needed improvement, so the learning experience would still exist.

If we decide to have each team play 2 games against each other at a time, let each team pick the server for 1 game.

If we decide to have each team play 3 games instead, have the home team pick the server for games 1 and 3, while the away team gets to pick the server for game 2.



I am all for adding games to the regular season, but I am also against adding best-of-anything series to the regular season. Do not add best-of-anything matchups to anything but the playoffs. I implore you not to!
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Re: A Solution for Probe League

Post by Cafca » Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:38 pm

Cafca wrote:
Cafca wrote:
Mets wrote: I think a best Best of 3 series with a 5 minute intermission between games would be a great idea under this system. It'd give the team coaches a chance to quickly go over things that might have went wrong during the game and give them an opportunity to correct their mistakes.
Are you both suggesting that a best-of-3 series should be played in the regular season?
If you are both suggesting a best-of-3 series should be played, then I must say, bad idea. Every team must play the exact same number of regular season games. If a best-of-anything was installed in the regular season for matchups, then it would allow some teams to give their probes extra playtime, which translates into more chances to prove themselves, while other teams would not be able to give their probes as much playtime. Also, with some teams playing more regular season games than others, in the event of a scoring race between 2 or more players, the player on the team that ended up playing more games would have an unfair advantage of being on a team that played extra games, therefore more chances to score points than their rival on the other team.

Example: Team A in the regular season plays against their first 3 opponents in the regular season. All matchups are best-of-3. Team A beats each team 2-0, therefore, have played 6 games total.

Team B does the same thing, but wins the first 2 best-of-3 matches 2-1, while losing the last one 2-1. Team B has played 9 games.

By the time each team has finished facing opponents #1, #2, and #3, Team B will have played 3 more games than Team A. Team B's players will very likely finish with more points than team A's players by the time they have both finished playing their first 3 opponents.

Another problem with having best-of-anythings in the regular season, would be how it would ruin the points system in the standings (3 for regulation win, 2 for OT/SO win, 1 for OT/SO loss, 0 for regulation loss).

Example: Remember how Team A defeated each opponent in their best-of-3 series 2-0? They won all of those games in regulation. They collected 18 points total, and hold a record of 6-0-0-0-0

Another team, called Team C, finished their first 3 best-of-3 rounds each with a record of 2-1. All of Team C's wins were in regulation, and all of their losses were in overtime. They collect 18 points from the wins, and 3 from the overtime losses, therefore having earned 21 points. Team C's record is obviously not as good as Team A's, but in the standings, Team C would be ahead, because they have more points. The points system we created in season 2 and still use today was made so that teams that won in regulation got a bigger reward for beating their opponents in less time (no OT required), while overtime + shootout games would recognise that both teams played at an equal level, and that anyone could have won it.

My suggestion, is to replace the best-of-3 idea, with a 2 game idea.

Instead of having the two teams play a best-of-3 series, have each team play a definite number of games. It could be 2, or 3 (or anything really, but I don't think we should go beyond this). Teams could still have the 5 minute intermission for the coache(s) and team leader(s) to go over anything that went well, and anything that needed improvement, so the learning experience would still exist.

If we decide to have each team play 2 games against each other at a time, let each team pick the server for 1 game.

If we decide to have each team play 3 games instead, have the home team pick the server for games 1 and 3, while the away team gets to pick the server for game 2.





I am all for adding games to the regular season, but I am also against adding best-of-anything series to the regular season. Do not add best-of-anything matchups to anything but the playoffs. I implore you not to!

P.S. I've seen this idea used in star strikers before. Was not pleased.
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Re: A Solution for Probe League

Post by Mets » Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:26 pm

Cafca wrote:
Cafca wrote:
Mets wrote: I think a best Best of 3 series with a 5 minute intermission between games would be a great idea under this system. It'd give the team coaches a chance to quickly go over things that might have went wrong during the game and give them an opportunity to correct their mistakes.
Are you both suggesting that a best-of-3 series should be played in the regular season?
If you are both suggesting a best-of-3 series should be played, then I must say, bad idea. Every team must play the exact same number of regular season games. If a best-of-anything was installed in the regular season for matchups, then it would allow some teams to give their probes extra playtime, which translates into more chances to prove themselves, while other teams would not be able to give their probes as much playtime. Also, with some teams playing more regular season games than others, in the event of a scoring race between 2 or more players, the player on the team that ended up playing more games would have an unfair advantage of being on a team that played extra games, therefore more chances to score points than their rival on the other team.

Example: Team A in the regular season plays against their first 3 opponents in the regular season. All matchups are best-of-3. Team A beats each team 2-0, therefore, have played 6 games total.

Team B does the same thing, but wins the first 2 best-of-3 matches 2-1, while losing the last one 2-1. Team B has played 9 games.

By the time each team has finished facing opponents #1, #2, and #3, Team B will have played 3 more games than Team A. Team B's players will very likely finish with more points than team A's players by the time they have both finished playing their first 3 opponents.

Another problem with having best-of-anythings in the regular season, would be how it would ruin the points system in the standings (3 for regulation win, 2 for OT/SO win, 1 for OT/SO loss, 0 for regulation loss).

Example: Remember how Team A defeated each opponent in their best-of-3 series 2-0? They won all of those games in regulation. They collected 18 points total, and hold a record of 6-0-0-0-0

Another team, called Team C, finished their first 3 best-of-3 rounds each with a record of 2-1. All of Team C's wins were in regulation, and all of their losses were in overtime. They collect 18 points from the wins, and 3 from the overtime losses, therefore having earned 21 points. Team C's record is obviously not as good as Team A's, but in the standings, Team C would be ahead, because they have more points. The points system we created in season 2 and still use today was made so that teams that won in regulation got a bigger reward for beating their opponents in less time (no OT required), while overtime + shootout games would recognise that both teams played at an equal level, and that anyone could have won it.

My suggestion, is to replace the best-of-3 idea, with a 2 game idea.

Instead of having the two teams play a best-of-3 series, have each team play a definite number of games. It could be 2, or 3 (or anything really, but I don't think we should go beyond this). Teams could still have the 5 minute intermission for the coache(s) and team leader(s) to go over anything that went well, and anything that needed improvement, so the learning experience would still exist.

If we decide to have each team play 2 games against each other at a time, let each team pick the server for 1 game.

If we decide to have each team play 3 games instead, have the home team pick the server for games 1 and 3, while the away team gets to pick the server for game 2.



I am all for adding games to the regular season, but I am also against adding best-of-anything series to the regular season. Do not add best-of-anything matchups to anything but the playoffs. I implore you not to!
Great points, thanks for the suggestions. A two game series for each opponent sounds like the better idea to me as well.
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Re: A Solution for Probe League

Post by Demosthenes » Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:41 pm

If probe games arent casted the league will end-seeing new players having the chance to be casted is why new players join. Its the main way to attract new players into ZHL. That being said, i dont have the answer for how to logistically make this happen I think its time to move in the opposite direction with probes. If ZH players and probe players are on a "team" with "captains" there should be some accountability, probe games should mean something, even if it has to only be for home server advantage in playoffs. There will be Probe teams that fall off during the season, one or two like always, and there ZHplayers should be, in some way, accountable. It would make ZHplayers care about there probes teams more hopefully. And id say only players drafted after 5th round can skate in probe, maybe let ZHplayers goalie if they want off position. Go ahead.. tell me all the reasons this wont happen..
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