What Will AC Punishment Look Like For S8?

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Re: What Will AC Punishment Look Like For S8?

Post by DerrocK » Sun Sep 25, 2016 4:44 am

I'll show you what a real ACer looks like in 2 weeks :)
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Re: What Will AC Punishment Look Like For S8?

Post by DUCKHUNTER » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:07 am

AngryTits wrote:Just because you guys can't click fast doesn't mean others use AC. (sleepy)

And before laughing at me ducks (well I hope you are joking), you should check one of your own and how he suddenly learned to dribble perfectly literally overnight. When I was practicing dribbling it took me months to master it, oh well maybe I'm just slow learner. ^^

edit. Also if I used AC and wanted to hide it, I would hide it. Just set the click rate and there will be no alarm, you may think that I'm very stupid sittingduck but I'm not. I have 0 respect towards AC users.
Lol Angry, Its obvious, that Pere used that AC in the game two days ago. U can check replay aswell, Im not saying that all of you use it, but Pere surely did and he said he only spammed, but I dont think u can mamage to get 700clicks with spam LOL.

Well if you sometime train some of your players in clan the can also get better ;) Well it look ur jelly that newcommer became better than you.

f.e. if I see spam of OPMM first line up its just weird that u not 100% control your dribbles and do same amount of them in situations which need one click, You maybe should think of yourself than trying to say ur spammin that fast ;)
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Re: What Will AC Punishment Look Like For S8?

Post by AngryTits » Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:56 am

DUCKHUNTER wrote:
AngryTits wrote:Just because you guys can't click fast doesn't mean others use AC. (sleepy)

And before laughing at me ducks (well I hope you are joking), you should check one of your own and how he suddenly learned to dribble perfectly literally overnight. When I was practicing dribbling it took me months to master it, oh well maybe I'm just slow learner. ^^

edit. Also if I used AC and wanted to hide it, I would hide it. Just set the click rate and there will be no alarm, you may think that I'm very stupid sittingduck but I'm not. I have 0 respect towards AC users.
Lol Angry, Its obvious, that Pere used that AC in the game two days ago. U can check replay aswell, Im not saying that all of you use it, but Pere surely did and he said he only spammed, but I dont think u can mamage to get 700clicks with spam LOL.

Well if you sometime train some of your players in clan the can also get better ;) Well it look ur jelly that newcommer became better than you.

f.e. if I see spam of OPMM first line up its just weird that u not 100% control your dribbles and do same amount of them in situations which need one click, You maybe should think of yourself than trying to say ur spammin that fast ;)
Ok, I guess you guys were serious about this. :D
Well I let pere defend himself, but as I posted before lag spikes trigger the AC alarm (if you spam while the screen is frozen) and it's possible to trigger it just by spamming. Also I don't understand why you blame me using AC without any evidence, I don't know where you live but in my country you provide some evidence before coming out with accusations like this. I don't know if I have hurt your feelings at some point or why you are acting like this, if so please let me know.

You think I'm jealous, it shows that you clearly don't know me. I'm not egoistic person who would get jealous if some player is better than me. And I suck btw, so it's not a big deal if someone is better than me. :D I just wanted to point out that it's better to make sure your own nest is clean before coming out with accusations like this without evidence. I'm not blaming any of you using AC or something like that though, I wouldn't do it without any evidence.
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Re: What Will AC Punishment Look Like For S8?

Post by DUCKHUNTER » Sun Sep 25, 2016 9:53 am

AngryTits wrote:
DUCKHUNTER wrote:
AngryTits wrote:Just because you guys can't click fast doesn't mean others use AC. (sleepy)

And before laughing at me ducks (well I hope you are joking), you should check one of your own and how he suddenly learned to dribble perfectly literally overnight. When I was practicing dribbling it took me months to master it, oh well maybe I'm just slow learner. ^^

edit. Also if I used AC and wanted to hide it, I would hide it. Just set the click rate and there will be no alarm, you may think that I'm very stupid sittingduck but I'm not. I have 0 respect towards AC users.
Lol Angry, Its obvious, that Pere used that AC in the game two days ago. U can check replay aswell, Im not saying that all of you use it, but Pere surely did and he said he only spammed, but I dont think u can mamage to get 700clicks with spam LOL.

Well if you sometime train some of your players in clan the can also get better ;) Well it look ur jelly that newcommer became better than you.

f.e. if I see spam of OPMM first line up its just weird that u not 100% control your dribbles and do same amount of them in situations which need one click, You maybe should think of yourself than trying to say ur spammin that fast ;)
Ok, I guess you guys were serious about this. :D
Well I let pere defend himself, but as I posted before lag spikes trigger the AC alarm (if you spam while the screen is frozen) and it's possible to trigger it just by spamming. Also I don't understand why you blame me using AC without any evidence, I don't know where you live but in my country you provide some evidence before coming out with accusations like this. I don't know if I have hurt your feelings at some point or why you are acting like this, if so please let me know.



You think I'm jealous, it shows that you clearly don't know me. I'm not egoistic person who would get jealous if some player is better than me. And I suck btw, so it's not a big deal if someone is better than me. :D I just wanted to point out that it's better to make sure your own nest is clean before coming out with accusations like this without evidence. I'm not blaming any of you using AC or something like that though, I wouldn't do it without any evidence.
Nah you dont hurt me at all, I just dont understand why u using same frekvence of clicks in situations where u need one click maybe u cant just stop your fingers to click. But the evidence vs Pere is easy, when I checked replay he got over 700clicks when I tried in game alone I couldnt get over 300 with spamming as fast as I could, I think its clear here.
Also the game started to lagg when he used some kind of programm everyones ping raised up. I think this is reasonable evidence at all.
Also in the game we played he said he has to ask coftea about that so overall he bringed it at your team.
I hope themusic will update left click detector to be clear ;)
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Re: What Will AC Punishment Look Like For S8?

Post by Phi » Sun Sep 25, 2016 10:02 am

Since my name's started floating around, I guess I gotta respond, although I have this nagging feeling that it won't do any good. I have watched the replay mentioned by DH myself( and others as well, where I get 'ac detected'), if you look carefully, right before apm spikes it also drops, because I get lag at that moment, but that is not definitive and I can't prove that that moment isn't one where I merely activate ac hence a momentary drop in apm. I can't do shit to disprove this and regarding ac detector I find it to be akin to polygraph test. Sounds legit in theory, but in practice is all over the place. Had Coftea not pointed out the apm drop before spiking, if I didn't know it's my replay, I'd think the guy in question uses ac too.

As I said I have no tools nor skills to prove my innocence, so any further arguing on my part would be pure sophistry.
What follows now is purely my subjective view on the situation. I have been in euzh community for 2 years. I have a great aversion to drama and bm. I think everybody who has known me for some time has a gist of my personality. I too have jokingly thrown 'ac' mesages towards some people, opmm included, since I'm hardly a top tier spammer out there, so in a way this 'pere ac' thing is really amusing considering that, but on the flipside it really isn't. Whether people believe me or not doesn't bother me that much(that is not to say it doesn't at all), what bothers me most is that some could take this as a justification to start using ac. Now being unwillingly implicit in such motivation pisses me off, since I really enjoy zh, and I do disapprove ac/macro usage. Where does this leave me? Well, as I have stated numerous times ingame, I am retiring after current season ends( in effect, starting today), so competitively the issue is null and void either way, but I still intended to play pubs/privs and perhaps a CL game if needed. I just got told that Coftea has succeeded in simulating my situation and will share that on forum, so hopefully that clears this up, but if not, I suppose you'll be seeing me playing less, because I play zh for fun, but if instead I get a bad taste in my mouth, I'd rather not.
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Re: What Will AC Punishment Look Like For S8?

Post by AngryTits » Sun Sep 25, 2016 11:09 am

DUCKHUNTER wrote: Nah you dont hurt me at all, I just dont understand why u using same frekvence of clicks in situations where u need one click maybe u cant just stop your fingers to click. But the evidence vs Pere is easy, when I checked replay he got over 700clicks when I tried in game alone I couldnt get over 300 with spamming as fast as I could, I think its clear here.
Also the game started to lagg when he used some kind of programm everyones ping raised up. I think this is reasonable evidence at all.
Also in the game we played he said he has to ask coftea about that so overall he bringed it at your team.
I hope themusic will update left click detector to be clear ;)
I guess you are talking about "spam meta", ~half of the players are doing it atm. How is that evidence of someone using AC?
You can't click over 300 apm-->those who can use AC, what an excellent argument. :D
When someone is lagging others can also feel it, known fact?

Please provide some real evidence, I'm looking forward to it. :D

For starters you can google "jitter clicking", so you can notice that there are people who spamclick 2 or even 3 times faster than you. ^^
And why pere wanted to ask coftea about this, because he knows a lot about computer related stuff and what might cause this.
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Re: What Will AC Punishment Look Like For S8?

Post by handsumSnail » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:54 pm

pere retiring? well fml. why dude? uve been EU kind spirit for years :(

anyhows, dunno what to think about AC, at one point or another i thought most top tier players used it, cuz some unexplainable steals would happen often. but then u grind games and you'll get in situations where you'll go clean thru them (provided you do weird/unexpected movement) and steal wont trigger. also, having players like watermelon test AC out and say they were left as worse players for it (and that its only for short term improvement), makes it a non-issue for me nowadays...

now, its also my understanding ac can be used for right click. ppl with perfect spins and nothing else to their name are the most obvious ones. ac spins can be annoying, but are also manageable.

in conclusion, i think biggest AC damage is done when situations like these happen, when u accuse someone not guilty. ffs, my first game on stream way back in clan season 1 i was publicly accused by a caster (Junky) of using AC. i still dont understand how AC can help goalies this day, so, yeah... point being, it didnt feel good at all, and shit like this shouldnt randomly be thrown around.

so yeah, stay classy guys :D
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Re: What Will AC Punishment Look Like For S8?

Post by Coftea » Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:08 pm

AngryTits wrote:Looks like this was lowered, I'm able to trigger the alarm with normal rmb spam now. And when you spam while lagging it also triggers the alarm.
This is where it has started. It looks like there is skepticism about both points. Trigger the alarm by excessive spamming or by regular clicking during lags. Usually its quite amusing when people blame many of us using an AC but making this in in public form like here on the forums without real evidence gets annoying and is disrespectful imho.

As for the first point, yes there are people that are able to click fast enough to make the warning to pop up. After some testing today I found out that you need about 12 to 13 clicks/sec to trigger the warning. A while ago Angry has posted a video, showing that he easily manages to reach a click speed up to 15 clicks/sec. When you google 'jitter clicking' like Angry has suggested in his last post, you will find enough prove out there that this is not an uncommon click speed.

And to the second point, I did a few tests to prove that lags can trigger the AC warning. For this I used a network emulator to simulate lags while playing zh.
[+] Proof that lags can trigger the AC warning
Image
On the left side you see the live recording. I simulated a packet loss of 25% and also packets that arrive with 750ms latency. Both are very common reasons for lags. You notice that the game freezes for short amount of times that you have surely experienced yourself before too. During the whole clip I click about 8 times a second resulting to a max APM of 300 in normal conditions. On the right side you can see the recorded replay. At 1:48 game time the AC warning popped up.
If you pay attention to the clicks in the replay you notice that after each freeze they shortly come out in a sudden burst. These freezes also causing the APM jumping around like crazy, even reaching a peak of over 600 APM. Before the burst you can also see that the APM is constantly decreasing.

So what do we learn?
DUCKHUNTER wrote: Lol Angry, Its obvious, that Pere used that AC in the game two days ago. U can check replay aswell, Im not saying that all of you use it, but Pere surely did and he said he only spammed, but I dont think u can mamage to get 700clicks with spam LOL.
This can be totally legit with this knowledge. And Pere claims to have lags very regulary.
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Re: What Will AC Punishment Look Like For S8?

Post by carlito » Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:07 am

Loook at this shit, nerds plz I'm the only acing person in this game, i am the god of ac, none of u ac, cuz ur fuckin garbage, fuckin shitlords,
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Re: What Will AC Punishment Look Like For S8?

Post by Blitz » Mon Sep 26, 2016 6:51 am

Is it common on EU to have the AC detector being triggered? In honesty, since it was implemented I've only ever seen the AC detector go off one time on NA (there was like a four second lag freeze, and everyone got the detector). Sounds kind of suspicious to me unless EU and NA have different APM limits on the detector, which I highly doubt. So unless all EU are inherently faster clickers than all of NA, there is probably some third party programs if that AC detector is being triggered often ...
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