[Serious] League Management Accountability

Meepomart
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[Serious] League Management Accountability

Post by Meepomart » Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:43 pm

I am bringing this up not as a league manager but merely as a member of this community, I'm not speaking for anyone but myself.

I think there's a pretty big lack of transparency from league management, going way back to the beginning. Bans have happened in the past without much explanation (some arguable exceptions, e.g. Recurve, Carlito AC), and most changes to the Zealot Hockey leagues have happened without any true transparency on how they were decided on afterwards. I concede that changes are usually accompanied by some kind of blanket statement by league management, but it's never clear whether there was true discussion about them because we don't get to see how individual managers argued for or against them, or even if there was any management opposition to a given change whatsoever. How do we know league managers don't just 'afk' for a season while a commissioner unilaterally decides everything?

To get to the point, I'm wondering if people would want to see the pre-season voting sheets management has so that how league managers voted on things related to league structure are published after a season. (i.e. provide the LM google sheet as view only) Not only would this make league managers more accountable for how they voted and encourage a more thorough decision making process from each manager, but would also let the community see - to a degree - which managers were really contributing and/or were responsible for both popular and unpopular changes.

Poll: http://www.strawpoll.me/11458953

What do you guys think?
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Re: [Serious] League Management Accountability

Post by wawmoose » Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:58 pm

After a similar type of 'Transparency' was used in S7, where all votes were public, a shit show ensued.
Releasing the votes will do nothing at this point except get people who are upset with certain rule changes to harass the LMs who voted for something they didn't like.
I honestly cannot think of one positive discussion that will result from releasing those votes.
And if an LM is not doing his job to an acceptable extent, it would be other LMs responsibility to speak up about it, and Tom's responsibility to fire 'em, since he's the one that hired 'em to begin with.

Something to consider for next season rule stuff, is have the discussion happen publicly, perhaps on stream, where non LMs can also contribute, but keep the final vote decisions private to prevent what I talked about above.
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Re: [Serious] League Management Accountability

Post by Meepomart » Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:15 pm

@Moose
I think if someone is willing to take on the responsibility and power that comes with being a league manager, they should be more than willing to also take responsibility and justify how they voted during a season to anyone that harasses them. Keep in mind I'm not saying these votes should be immediately transparent, but only after everything is said and done and the dust has settled.
Regarding Season 7, I don't remember specifically seeing any releases of how the league managers voted during the pre-season. I think the votes you're talking about are mid-season decisions like banning carlito for AC or Recurve for smurfing. I may have been overzealous in including that in the poll, but at the end of the day that's just a poll.
To address unsatisfactory managers, I think that if a league manager is failing to the meet the obligations that they signed up for when they took on the (albeit volunteer) job, it is perfectly acceptable for that failure to be publicly recognized. This is not to say management should just offer up bad managers to be burned at the stake, but that a player's reputation in the community is inextricably linked to their performance in management positions. I don't think information regarding that performance should be withheld from public view.
What I personally want to focus on is pre-season voting because typically these are on non-individual topics. Pre-season voting often affects every single player in both leagues once the season starts, but I think it's fair to say that nobody really knows what league management does during the pre-season except league managers themselves (and maybe their close friends).
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Re: [Serious] League Management Accountability

Post by sidtkid » Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:33 pm

I would agree on both accounts above.
Instead of releasing the votes of each LM, I would release the result of each decision made. For example, if you were to change probe to be completely separate from ZHL, be like:
Proposal: Probe League Independence
YES: #of votes
NO: #of votes
Decision: Probe League will ______.

Above is an example of a major change/decision in the league. For minor changes/decision, there is no need to release results of the votes, such as a rule change.

In addition, rule changes need to be finalized before the start of the season. What happened with Season 8 was when rules were changed, not everyone knew because they don't check the forums for everything related to zh. They rely on the website, friends, and the community for information regarding the league.

As for LMs, have less of them. I'm not sure, but I think there were just too many this season to effectively manage the league as there may have been too few jobs available for the supply.
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Re: [Serious] League Management Accountability

Post by htcp » Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:41 pm

sidtkid wrote:I would agree on both accounts above.
Instead of releasing the votes of each LM, I would release the result of each decision made. For example, if you were to change probe to be completely separate from ZHL, be like:
Proposal: Probe League Independence
YES: #of votes
NO: #of votes
Decision: Probe League will ______.

Above is an example of a major change/decision in the league. For minor changes/decision, there is no need to release results of the votes, such as a rule change.

In addition, rule changes need to be finalized before the start of the season. What happened with Season 8 was when rules were changed, not everyone knew because they don't check the forums for everything related to zh. They rely on the website, friends, and the community for information regarding the league.

As for LMs, have less of them. I'm not sure, but I think there were just too many this season to effectively manage the league as there may have been too few jobs available for the supply.
thats actually the current voting system, i collect the votes privately but reveal the total tally's. You can take a look at the preseason ban votes.
and at the mid-league rule changes, they were made during the season due to changing circumstances. Not being able to change rules during the season doesn't allow you to adapt.
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Re: [Serious] League Management Accountability

Post by Meepomart » Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:47 pm

I would add that when Tom says "[it's] the current voting system," he means only for mid-season decisions; right now it's kind of like a watered down version of what was in place for Season 7. However, there is no system in place to publish votes made before the season whatsoever, which is what I think Sid is primarily commenting on.
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Re: [Serious] League Management Accountability

Post by JMoney » Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:30 am

this wasn't as serious as the title claimed, pretty upset that you're resorting to clickbait on the zealothockey.net forums.


moose is right:


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Re: [Serious] League Management Accountability

Post by OzyWho » Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:02 am

Really? You guys have so much mistrust towards your league managers? Don't criticize someone for their voluntary work unless you paid them for it. If you think you can do it better, then do it yourself.

I don't know anything about ZHL or the NA community in general, but reading the original post makes me question - why would anyone put up with that crap shitload of negativity towards them?

Now post something nice to balance it out. :evil:
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Re: [Serious] League Management Accountability

Post by LighTniNG » Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:26 pm

OzyWho wrote:If you think you can do it better, then do it yourself.
This implies that people can just walk up and become a LM if they want. The commissioner decides who the LMs are if I'm not mistaken, so if people want new LM(s) they have to bring it up on the forum or to the commissioner himself.
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Re: [Serious] League Management Accountability

Post by Cafca » Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:15 pm

LighTniNG wrote:
OzyWho wrote:If you think you can do it better, then do it yourself.
This implies that people can just walk up and become a LM if they want. The commissioner decides who the LMs are if I'm not mistaken, so if people want new LM(s) they have to bring it up on the forum or to the commissioner himself.
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