[Serious] League Management Accountability

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Blitz
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Re: [Serious] League Management Accountability

Post by Blitz » Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:15 pm

Cafca wrote:
LighTniNG wrote:
OzyWho wrote:If you think you can do it better, then do it yourself.
This implies that people can just walk up and become a LM if they want. The commissioner decides who the LMs are if I'm not mistaken, so if people want new LM(s) they have to bring it up on the forum or to the commissioner himself.
^
Yep I asked to be LM and commissioner and was told no both times, commissioner because Teroh wanted to keep it within his own group of friends... LM because I wasn't active enough. I also would vouch to say that we need to VOTE in our commissioners and stop letting previous commissioners decide.
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Re: [Serious] League Management Accountability

Post by OzyWho » Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:24 pm

LighTniNG wrote:
OzyWho wrote:If you think you can do it better, then do it yourself.
This implies that people can just walk up and become a LM if they want. The commissioner decides who the LMs are if I'm not mistaken, so if people want new LM(s) they have to bring it up on the forum or to the commissioner himself.
What is the big deal of making your own league or tournament?
Only 2 problems i could see with that:
1) have to find a way to add them in events tab and news tab on zealothockey channel,but even that can be averted, as you could just make a SC2 group just for that.
2) to stream it, and that also could do yourself.



I am sorry if I misunderstand something. But the last 2 games I played that had tournaments in it were:
*a SC2 clan that had regular in-house tournaments.
*back in the very old days in warcraft 3, where we had a small community on a private server, with regular tournaments.
And in both of those cases - if someone didn't like something, they just either stfu or made their own tournament. Which was the case often enough. (though that made in both cases actually players lose interest slowly)
What is so different here? The amount of time it takes to finish a league/tournament? The name? The awards?
We experience something, evaluate it, and then we feel an emotional response according to that evaluation.
Reason is emotion's slave and exists to rationalize emotional experience.
Rationalize emotional response in the present experience.
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Re: [Serious] League Management Accountability

Post by Cubs » Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:05 pm

Blitz wrote:
Cafca wrote:
LighTniNG wrote:
This implies that people can just walk up and become a LM if they want. The commissioner decides who the LMs are if I'm not mistaken, so if people want new LM(s) they have to bring it up on the forum or to the commissioner himself.
^
Yep I asked to be LM and commissioner and was told no both times, commissioner because Teroh wanted to keep it within his own group of friends... LM because I wasn't active enough. I also would vouch to say that we need to VOTE in our commissioners and stop letting previous commissioners decide.
There was a vote for commissioner this season.
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Re: [Serious] League Management Accountability

Post by Meepomart » Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:19 pm

@Ozy's initial response:
OzyWho wrote:Really? You guys have so much mistrust towards your league managers?
I would not say that a change like this would be a response to a general feeling of mistrust towards the league managers. I like to think that most of the community sees league management in a positive light. However that being said, there are always individuals that will criticize management to no end, and unfortunately some of this criticism takes a less constructive form (e.g. trolling). Holding league managers accountable helps quiet those disruptive voices because everyone can see what management is doing more clearly. Trolls take advantage of the fact that so little information about the LM decision-making process is available, that's why we will often see huge surges of drama about things that really aren't that significant in comparison to major decisions like splitting ZHL and ZHPL.
OzyWho wrote:Don't criticize someone for their voluntary work unless you paid them for it. If you think you can do it better, then do it yourself.
I am a league manager this season and I can say from experience that I tried to do better, still am trying, and will continue trying in the future. I've also always welcomed criticism of my decisions as an LM. I'm fairly certain that most if not all of my fellow league managers have this mindset as well.

That league managers are "volunteers" is really meaningless in terms of, "Should they have oversight?" Every public servant in a democratic country has public oversight because the decisions they make affect far more people than just themselves. They're typically paid relatively insignificant amounts anyway. There has never been a President that did it for the money; they do it for the power to change their country in the way they think is right. It's that power that demands the oversight, not whether they are paid or not. Ideally, it should be no different for league managers.

The way that a league manager votes affects more than 150 different people every season. It would be complacent of the Zealot Hockey community to let them operate with complete independence. Keep in mind I'm not even suggesting a huge amount of oversight for league managers - only to release how they voted on pre-season topics AFTER a season is complete.
OzyWho wrote:why would anyone put up with that crap shitload of negativity towards them?
Now post something nice to balance it out. :evil:
I really had no intention of directing negativity or unkindness towards league managers. As I said earlier, I myself am a league manager and, knowing the other managers, I really doubt any of them took any personal offense from my suggestion.

I would just like to add that, if this suggestion were to take place for this season, I honestly would think the community would be pleased with how management is run. I am proud of what Tom and the other managers have accomplished so far this season, and I'm proud to have been lucky enough to work with them. I really believe that having LM decisions made public is nothing but a service to managers - they (in theory) would make more informed choices, knowing that they would be reviewed after the season, and their choices would also be appreciated more. Everyone would be able to see just how MUCH managers work on pre-season ideas and even ideas that may have be rejected by management could be used as inspiration for community discussion where ideas that LM's couldn't think of might surface. Just releasing the topics that LM's discuss after a season would be beneficial in my opinion, regardless of whether the votes on them were released.

Also, thank you for your comments Ozy :)
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Re: [Serious] League Management Accountability

Post by forumusername » Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:05 pm

OzyWho wrote: I don't know anything about ZHL or the NA community in general
enuf said

eus need 2 shut da fuk up
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Re: [Serious] League Management Accountability

Post by Cafca » Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:57 pm

Blitz wrote:
Cafca wrote:
LighTniNG wrote:
This implies that people can just walk up and become a LM if they want. The commissioner decides who the LMs are if I'm not mistaken, so if people want new LM(s) they have to bring it up on the forum or to the commissioner himself.
^
Yep I asked to be LM and commissioner and was told no both times, commissioner because Teroh wanted to keep it within his own group of friends... LM because I wasn't active enough. I also would vouch to say that we need to VOTE in our commissioners and stop letting previous commissioners decide.
I do not agree with this friend Blitzerg.
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Re: [Serious] League Management Accountability

Post by Blitz » Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:22 pm

Cubs wrote:
Blitz wrote:
Cafca wrote: ^
Yep I asked to be LM and commissioner and was told no both times, commissioner because Teroh wanted to keep it within his own group of friends... LM because I wasn't active enough. I also would vouch to say that we need to VOTE in our commissioners and stop letting previous commissioners decide.
There was a vote for commissioner this season.
Yea in a selective Skype group of Tom's friends . . . that isn't really conducive to who the community wants to lead them. I would never have voted Tom and I don't think a lot of people would have either (nothing towards Tom character, he's definitely mature enough). We need someone with the willingness to actually do stuff of Swift with nice manners of Kaioken (lol srsly). Obviously this isn't realistic, but there are a few people who are close to this description, and I think it is VERY VERY fair to have the community elect who will make the decisions for them.
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Re: [Serious] League Management Accountability

Post by carlito » Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:26 pm

Let me in that skype group give me commish I want to make zh a fun place again. I will be kicking all lms out and gettin fresh faces, all lms are either Canadian scums and idiots 2bh. Let's get a fresh face in commishgive me a chance to try and build community up give me skype address
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