What's the Point of Probe?

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What's the Point of Probe?

Post by Bizarro » Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:02 am

Inclusion? Improvement? I don't see any.

Last season when I started playing Probe was so fun I wanted to be an owner this season. Due of the linked franchises in S8 the cut-off for ZHL players was a bit convoluted; however it was fairly standard practice for most teams to prioritize ZHL players or subs until about the 7th or 8th round (as I'm so often reminded of how Gecko had gotten screwed in probe for choosing Perplex to benefit his ZHL team). Due to this, true Probe level players like myself became included and ended up as full-season starters at around the 9/10th round (with 10 teams remind you). I improved during this time and our team was competitive enough to top the conference. However as soon as the playoffs rolled around; those teams with the player eligibility and concrete ZHL lineups (namely Aiur and Kaldir) ended up fielding full teams of ZHL players/subs (5-8th round) in Probe. Needless to say, as it was seen, these teams simply rolled through their competition because they were facing 10th round players like me.

This season the franchises were separated so Probe teams can focus on Probe. But then somewhere along the lines it was decided that 3 rounds of ZHL players and subs (more concentrated than before due to an 8 team format) would be double drafted and become the most valuable players in Probe. Suddenly 2-3 rounds of actual probe players have their starting spots taken away by players that (the majority of) likely don't care about probe and would rather practice with/play for their respective ZHL franchises (as I've been told by Lightning on occasion). This then leads to huge attendance issues in probe because a portion of players are suddenly eligible/required for 28 games resulting in an abundant need of free agents as we've seen thus far in S9 probe. Yet because these players are now eligible we begin to see similar results as the S8 probe-offs; where-in the team with the most ZHL players available wins.

tl;dr
Where is the league for improvement when actual probe players like myself have minimal impact on games, and the majority of games are simply decided by which team has the most ZHL players show up. How are we trying to include more players when 3 rounds of probes get displaced by people that are already participating in ZHL?

What's the point? :?
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Re: What's the Point of Probe?

Post by Kaigo1 » Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:33 am

I really dont think the people that were put in probe this season are causing problems as much as last season (outside dust who's a top 10 player imo, people will say he's not but look at stats and puck dont lie). The issue imo was where people got drafted and when you have a 8 team format, there is so much less room for mistakes. iFound being a 3rd round player was a joke the moment he was drafted in that spot. Chadgg is a good player but not 1st round material. I got over drafted imo and the opinion of some others. Slide feloned my team and we should have had a redraft, sleek is good but not slide good. We have just disproportionate teams this season where I have no doubt dust Cubs and ifound are going to win. People say the team of Peter and gigi are unfair but I don't really think they are that overpowered if teams are running their best lineups.

It's the nature of leagues, where as last season it annoyed me but this season it's whatever. I at least have people show up to practice so I can try to train a team.
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Re: What's the Point of Probe?

Post by Cubs » Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:41 am

I agree with Biz, probe league should be for development of probe players, not for the zhl bench (and in some case starters) to shit on people just trying to improve. I've said it all along, a league where gigi, Peter, and Dust get to play probe is a joke.

Also, for Blitz when he asks "oh gee who's actually ever come out of probe tho cuz u haven't teeheexd"
Dust, Tenkz, Sir, kwak, Swift, Marker, Chaotic, Mythic, Meepo, and Yoda are a few
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Re: What's the Point of Probe?

Post by Bizarro » Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:02 pm

forumusername wrote:rekt by dustdevil anutha one
While I could produce a topic on how DD abusing attendence lock to feign probe eligibility is as egregious as other recent probe crimes, this is not that topic.

Quality shitpost though.
CockDraft_S9 wrote:Awfully high expectations...
None were placed by me, yet I was disappointed.
Kaigo1 wrote:I really dont think the people that were put in probe this season are causing problems as much as last season

It's the nature of league
Not as much.

This is the goal of the topic - to ascertain the purpose of probe league, and pinpoint the problems plauging it so that they can be remedied. This is not exclusive to S9.

To my knowledge the goal of probe league is for the inclusion and improvement of lesser skilled or newer players. In my opinion giving probe eiligibilty to established players or rather those already participating in ZHL has a negative affect on these goals. Doing so on such a scale as this season (3 rounds of ZHL players) renders the league pointless.
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But how?
TeeKay wrote:Agreed, remove Bizarro from ZHPL as he is already participating in ZHL.
I am aware you're quite serious about these matters, but unfortunately the ZHL draft was mandatory.
Cubs wrote:I agree with Biz, probe league should be for development of probe players, not for the zhl bench (and in some case starters) to shit on people just trying to improve.
That just might be crazy enough to work.
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Re: What's the Point of Probe?

Post by Kaigo1 » Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:26 pm

The issue of removing those "3 rounds of ZHL players" is that it removes some people out entirely. Personally I would be considered "too good" for probe but "not good" enough to start for ZHL, so I wouldn't ever see guarenteed play time. Also, some players may be great ZHL players that couldn't carry a team by themselves in probe, where some ZHL players that are just good could carry a probe team based on their play style. If you took someone like Blitzerg and Carlito in two separate vacuum worlds and put them on say, the Wildcats, I think carlito over blitz would have so much more success just based on their play styles. Personally, I think 50% locked people who make 5th/6th round of ZHL shouldn't be allowed in ZHPL (stops people like dust falling into probe). Would solve a few issues of people artificially lowering their draft value.
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Re: What's the Point of Probe?

Post by Kaigo1 » Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:33 pm

Tbh though, I kind of like having dust in the probe league, personal biased though as he is a good friend that I game with and it makes me want to get better in this game. However, I could see how playing against him as a newer player is just discouraging, I felt the same when I played in S7 in my playoff series vs Burchester. Game felt hopeless, but the skaters on my team who played in that series, me perp and Bubba, all became much better skaters since then.
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Re: What's the Point of Probe?

Post by Mets » Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:57 pm

IMO there should be no attendance lock (at least for ZHL) since it's Sundays only
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Re: What's the Point of Probe?

Post by Cubs » Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:16 pm

sidtkid wrote:If you've never been a part of a management team, stfu. This is a very good season. Management 10/10.
So when u done talking
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Re: What's the Point of Probe?

Post by l)arkangel » Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:24 pm

The hope for probe is improvement and inclusion. The actuality of probe is giving playtime to players with proven attendance and/or skill that don't play in ZHL consistently, and then improvement/inclusion are the afterthoughts.

The dilemma is deciding between risking round 4-5 players getting near 0 play time, or giving the 9-12 round picks not getting playtime in ZHPL. So essentially all administrations have defaulted to the latter choice because the 4-5th round players are often proven to have some dedication to the game, while its much more risky to depend on those 9-12th round players who are likely new and have no proven track record. Is that good for the long run? Hell no. Is it the safer option? sadly yes. By no means am I saying that all 9-12th round players are undependable, and most of them likely could be if they are simply given play time. However, there's no history on them to reference.

That's my opinion at least.
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Re: What's the Point of Probe?

Post by Blitz » Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:42 pm

Let's look at probe like a business project. The manager of this business project had failed his last business project because he spread his money out to too many different contractors, and ran out of resources (s8). So the manager came up with a new plan to instead flood his resources into a smaller amount of contractors to where he thought he could get more value (s9).

So basically if that doesn't help, what I'm trying to say is that probe league s8 was very disastrous, the competition was atrocious and the attendance was beyond shoddy. This season the team count was reduced in order to increase competition in the league, which should promote more enthusiasm overall increasing attendance, and as a backup plan we had the re-draft. Obviously attendance isn't too much better (although no forfeits yet), but the competition is ten times higher IMO.

The point of probe league is inclusion / league for those not in ZHL. This isn't a developmental league, there are players in probe who have played way longer than a lot of ZHL players. Some people will never improve to the level of ZHL, and that's ok. Improvement doesn't come from playing in two probe league games a week, that simply isn't how it works. So no this isn't a developmental league. There is no problem in participating in a B-league (which is what probe is). Just my opinion though.

Also biz the only reason you enjoyed s8 so much was because you didn't expect to play in probe league because you were super new to the game, but you got the chance because your team had bad attendance ( or so I understand ). This is the exact situation I was trying to avoid, I didn't want teams dieng off and have to look for their 10th rounded or whatever to pull through , that's a 1/100 chance. Also IMO the only reason you were able to play probe so quickly was because how much you were training in ih's and pubs which you have toned back on A LOT.

Also whoever is posting behind a mock draft account, LOL - stealth didn't quit haHAA.
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