Sly's Last Post

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Sly
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Sly's Last Post

Post by Sly » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:03 pm

This will probably be my last post on these forums, and I won't be playing ZH anymore, but I hope you hear me out and carefully consider what I have to say.

Zealot Hockey is a cool little video game. There's something about these kinds of games that attracts all of us to keep playing it, even when the game itself isn't as fun as hundreds of other games we have at our disposal. Yet, we come back. ZH isn't the only game I've played of this kind. Back when I was a young kid, I played several games on the original StarCraft that had the same types of qualities and effect. I grew up playing several games on Warcraft III--particularly a game called Elite Snipers--and many of those games had the exact same characteristics.

Probably few or none of you know what Elite Snipers is, but that's not the point. Looking back on why Snipers lasted so long, I realized one day a while back that it was the community that made the game fun. An extremely simplistic game *within* an aging platform shouldn't have been popular several years after its creation, but it was instead one of the most popular games on WC3, until DotA. Even after DotA came out, fanatics of the game stayed and played. Why am I telling you this?

Because I watched Snipers die.

It was beyond time for it to go, but there was something surreal about not having it in my life anymore. Looking back, I would've done many things differently as a kid playing Snipers. If I had the intuition to organize the game as ZH is today, it might still be around. I'll always know that what made the game great was the people who played it. The competition, the rivalries, the alliances, and the "belonging" with people you don't really know, but know better than many people you know in real life--it's a strange and inviting thing. I still believe that this element is something game developers haven't figured out yet, and one day someone will figure it out and make quite a killing in doing so.

How did Snipers die? It died because the community was unwilling to sacrifice, compromise, or have a minimum level of respect for one another. I'll never forget how many of the players--many of whom were big parts of the problem--messaged me years later, asking if Snipers was still alive, and how they could play it again. I think if they had known the mess they were creating at the time, they would've acted very differently. Instead, people refused to quit cheating (it was easier to cheat in Snipers than ZH), refused to quit "clan killing", and refused to let go of age-old grudges purely out of selfishness.

So the game died, and it died long before everyone stopped playing it. That element about a game you can't quite put your finger on, it was gone. And it was avoidable.

I'm here to warn you that it appears to me some of you are walking down that same path, and it'll be severely damaging to ZH. Perhaps I'm wrong, and nothing is really wrong. But I don't think so.

We've had a difficult situation to deal with this season. It seems like an impossible one to get totally right by both sides, so we tried to make the fairest decision we could. I've written out the logic behind my opinion in detail in another post in this subforum. You may not agree with the facts of the case or my logic entirely, but it's simply not possible to honestly say that we arrived at the decision we did due to bias or maliciously attempting to rig something in one team's favor.

The chat logs linked below are very long, but I hope you read them for two reasons:

First, they show exactly why I arrived at the conclusions I did (and I explain why I did in real time in the logs). Second, they show what I believe is exactly the type of mindset that I hope you all avoid taking a hold of. I'm sure Maha is totally sincere in his beliefs. That said, it is extremely disturbing that someone would--without having been involved in the league at all this season--attempt to subvert the league management in favor of his old friends who no longer play the game hardly at all.

I find it extremely disappointing that it appears no serious effort was taken to attempt to understand the other side by EITHER party involved in this case. Say whatever you want about the management team. Say whatever you want about Blitzerg as commissioner. He certainly wasn't a great one (this is understated, Blitz :)), but to claim he influenced the outcome of the decisions made by the rest of us, or to say that somehow Blitzerg is attempting to "revive his team", is simply preposterous.

You can count on me to be as honest as possible, so I'll say this: the blame for this mess lies with you, the community--not with all of you, but with many of you. Those of you who routinely attacked and trolled Blitzerg, the management (from this season or any other), or others in positions of authority; those of you who denigrated casters, stat-keepers, or other volunteer positions for not being good enough or to your liking; those of you who selfishly accepted all the benefits of being a part of the community while only pretending to contribute back to it--you are to blame.

I won't be playing ZH, as I said. But I still don't want it to die. I hope some of you start placing more value on the people in the community rather than the results you can get from the community, and act with a little more grace and humility, rather than always assuming the worst about each other.

Anyway, here are the logs of my conversation with Maha. Good luck, ZH.

Part 1 (3/21): http://textuploader.com/dtz0h

Part 2 (3/22): http://textuploader.com/dtz0z

Part 3 (Today, 3/22): http://textuploader.com/dtz0n
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Re: Sly's Last Post

Post by maha » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:08 pm

If you think that concealing evidence has nothing to do with "the investigation" then you don't know what an investigation is.

blitz and mets had direct say in whether or not evidence was released publicly; that should never have happened, and the handling of evidence should have been entirely independent from either of the two teams. If evidence had been released sooner, more experts would have had the chance to confirm or deny marker and krazy's claims. Whether or not evidence should have been released is not the question, though, the question is should blitzerg and mets be the ones to decide that? Concealing evidence is an effective way to withhold the truth, so there'd better be some ooutstanding reasons for doing so... but there weren't.

Now that evidence has been released, the picture is becoming more and more clear. There is no evidence, and every expert I've talked with agrees that there isn't even close to enough "proof" to determine anything related to malicious attacks.
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Re: Sly's Last Post

Post by maha » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:30 pm

Sly wrote:That said, it is extremely disturbing that someone would--without having been involved in the league at all this season--attempt to subvert the league management in favor of his old friends who no longer play the game hardly at all
what in the...? What "friends" exactly are u talking about? You are seriously going to make this completely baseless claim like this out of nowhere? And to assume that just because I took a season off after literally playing 8 seasons in a row, means I shouldn't have grounds to care about the season? Did you just default assume that I have some narcissistic personality and couldn't possibly care about the league, or can you simply not fathom someone doing something without specific interest in personal gain?
Sly wrote:but to claim he influenced the outcome of the decisions made by the rest of us, or to say that somehow Blitzerg is attempting to "revive his team", is simply preposterous.
Concealing evidence and hiding the truth doesn't constitute as influencing the decision? Ha.. Ha... i cant even tell anymore if im just being trolled or not.
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Re: Sly's Last Post

Post by Cubs » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:37 pm

maha wrote: Concealing evidence and hiding the truth doesn't constitute as influencing the decision? Ha.. Ha... i cant even tell anymore if im just being trolled or not.
You're still letting your friends and their bias affect your opinion on this? Ha.. Ha... i cant even tell anymore if im just being trolled or not.
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Re: Sly's Last Post

Post by maha » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:40 pm

Cubs wrote:
maha wrote: Concealing evidence and hiding the truth doesn't constitute as influencing the decision? Ha.. Ha... i cant even tell anymore if im just being trolled or not.
You're still letting your friends and their bias affect your opinion on this? Ha.. Ha... i cant even tell anymore if im just being trolled or not.
Cubs you're really helping the case out with your well thought out arguments! Hope to see more quality, thought provoking posts from you in the future!
"This is the most absurd piece of garbage that can't even be applied to the actual league. Great job embarrassing yourselves."
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Re: Sly's Last Post

Post by Marker » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:42 pm

maha wrote:
Cubs wrote:
maha wrote: Concealing evidence and hiding the truth doesn't constitute as influencing the decision? Ha.. Ha... i cant even tell anymore if im just being trolled or not.
You're still letting your friends and their bias affect your opinion on this? Ha.. Ha... i cant even tell anymore if im just being trolled or not.
Cubs you're really helping the case out with your well thought out arguments! Hope to see more quality, thought provoking posts from you in the future!
Agreed! Cubs commish season 10!
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Re: Sly's Last Post

Post by krazymen » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:42 pm

As far as im concerned there was some IPs not revealed still which could easily lead to the claim of DOS. However every time I explained that to you maha or vapour, It felt like talking to a brick wall. On a side note, I would never fight a battle that doesnt make sense, If i were the only one to claim something it is probably wrong. However some of the people you asked me to talk to maha, had some weird claims of their own that made me distrust their opinion on the matter.

On a final note, I would just like to say that I never claimed it was a trojan 100% but rather that it could have been one. Also as far as im concerned, I wouldnt want to reveal anything to anyone if I believe that the person attacked did not have a proper way to protect himself. In this case, Mets had a very outdated router, no antivirus, outdated version of windows and a very limited firewall. I dont believe that revealing anything would teach people how to do the same to someone else for the very simple reason that everytime I would say something it would get deformed.

This is also the reason I did not want to discuss it further as I was getting very tired of repeating the same thing over the course of a week to the same people. Dont get me wrong, asking question is extremely important but if you ask a question you should remember the answer word by word and try to do some research on your own.
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Re: Sly's Last Post

Post by Cubs » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:46 pm

maha wrote:
Cubs wrote:
maha wrote: Concealing evidence and hiding the truth doesn't constitute as influencing the decision? Ha.. Ha... i cant even tell anymore if im just being trolled or not.
You're still letting your friends and their bias affect your opinion on this? Ha.. Ha... i cant even tell anymore if im just being trolled or not.
Cubs you're really helping the case out with your well thought out arguments! Hope to see more quality, thought provoking posts from you in the future!
Yep you're really helping too with your little rebel skype crew and your impeachment threats. Hold on folks, can't wait to see what kind of antics Aiur and friends try to throw during the finals!
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Re: Sly's Last Post

Post by Sleek » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:50 pm

returning to banjoball? my man!
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Re: Sly's Last Post

Post by Mets » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:55 pm

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"This is the most absurd piece of garbage that can't even be applied to the actual league. Great job embarrassing yourselves."
Vapour wrote:Tenkz who loves off mets
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