Shot Clock

Post suggestions you have here that relate to the game's mechanics
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Re: Shot Clock

Post by Kurt_58 » Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:22 pm

Grade A post Water. 10/10 would read again.
DerrocK wrote: Unless football is different in America, time waste isn't bitchwalking, time waste = delaying the taking of a free kick, delaying the time of a throw in, delaying the game because of an injury, if there are a lot of fouls in the game etc but there are legitimate tactics to waste time while in game.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fan ... -it-means/
Article explaining how informal stoppage time is and that it is ultimately up to referee discretion on what constitutes wasted time.
Marker wrote:I've never seen this actually enforced in any meaningful way other than throwing the puck over the glass.
See.
fancypants wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VV1PrbkK3E

Similar situation in the NHL. There isn't a rule that disallows doing this but the refs stop the game anyway because production value goes down.
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Re: Shot Clock

Post by Watermelon » Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:25 pm

DerrocK wrote:
Watermelon wrote:
-MLS does not have a shot clock. Why? Because the refs account for how much time is being wasted, and they add on that much time to the end of the game, extending the game. The game also doesn't end at a specific time like most sports, but instead will often extend to when a final shot is taken (I had to research this, I don't watch MLS).
Unless football is different in America, time waste isn't bitchwalking, time waste = delaying the taking of a free kick, delaying the time of a throw in, delaying the game because of an injury, if there are a lot of fouls in the game etc but there are legitimate tactics to waste time while in game.

An example of this in europe is barcelona, they are known for their posession play (70%+ of ball posession) with the theory of I have the ball, you can't score.

I see. But it still fatigues players over time to do so, correct? They aren't just standing around doing nothing for portions of the game?
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Re: Shot Clock

Post by fancypants » Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:28 pm

I think it would be better to implement a system similar to lacrosse. If you're not familiar, once your team gets possession in your defensive zone you have 20 seconds to bring it across the midfield line. At that point the ball must enter 'the box' (the center of the attacking zone) once every 10 seconds.

Translating to ZH, you could give a team 10 seconds from the moment they gain possession in the defensive half to moving it to the offensive half. If you later bring the puck back across the center ice line, then you'd get 5 seconds to bring it back to the offensive zone. This would speed up the game and allow for a full court press to be a legitimate comeback method. Restricting the area of play to the offensive zone allows the defense to play more aggressive for turnovers and if the third man has the puck and tries to hold the line he may either be forced back and be rushed by the clock or turn it over leading to an odd-man rush.

My issue with a basketball type shot clock is that a team could simply choose to waste the full time in the defensive zone anyway and then look to get possession back after the time expires and do the same thing. Also, if a team is taking their time in the offensive zone looking for a good chance I don't think they should be penalized.
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Re: Shot Clock

Post by Watermelon » Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:30 pm

fancypants wrote:I think it would be better to implement a system similar to lacrosse. If you're not familiar, once your team gets possession in your defensive zone you have 20 seconds to bring it across the midfield line. At that point the ball must enter 'the box' (the center of the attacking zone) once every 10 seconds.

Translating to ZH, you could give a team 10 seconds from the moment they gain possession in the defensive half to moving it to the offensive half. If you later bring the puck back across the center ice line, then you'd get 5 seconds to bring it back to the offensive zone. This would speed up the game and allow for a full court press to be a legitimate comeback method. Restricting the area of play to the offensive zone allows the defense to play more aggressive for turnovers and if the third man has the puck and tries to hold the line he may either be forced back and be rushed by the clock or turn it over leading to an odd-man rush.

My issue with a basketball type shot clock is that a team could simply choose to waste the full time in the defensive zone anyway and then look to get possession back after the time expires and do the same thing. Also, if a team is taking their time in the offensive zone looking for a good chance I don't think they should be penalized.
wtf is lacrosse? Kappa

This is actually a neat idea as well. My issue is I still think it's possible to waste A LOT of time playing "offense", because of the box-shaped net and the rounded rink.

Also in the NBA, there is another foul called backcourt violation. Once you get to the offensize zone, you can't cross back into your defensive zone with the ball.

What we could actually do is a combination of these ideas.

Keep em coming
Last edited by Watermelon on Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shot Clock

Post by Marker » Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:36 pm

Kurt_58 wrote:
Marker wrote:I've never seen this actually enforced in any meaningful way other than throwing the puck over the glass.
See.
fancypants wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VV1PrbkK3E

Similar situation in the NHL. There isn't a rule that disallows doing this but the refs stop the game anyway because production value goes down.
I know about that, this isn't a delay of game penalty. This is completely different. This isn't out of bitchwalking to keep a lead, this is out of formation. Theres also no rule other than the ref can call a faceoff if they slow down the puck. It happened many times, yet the refs only called 2-3 faceoffs. I wouldn't mind casters calling faceoffs, I think that would work better. But meh, shot clock! why not! *smh*
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Re: Shot Clock

Post by Blitz » Fri Feb 26, 2016 6:22 pm

Shot clock is probably one of the worst possible fixes to a non-existent issue of bitch walking. I'll say it again... bitch walking isn't an issue right now and is literally only ever an issue when people continuously talk about it like it's some game-breaking mechanic right now that everyone is abusing. The system we currently have is absolutely fine. If you implement a shot-clock then the S6 Aiur Storms would've lost like 90% of their games. It seems selfish tbh, you just want defenders to not be able to out-possess you IMO. How can a defender control a game if he only has 20-30 seconds. It usually takes 10 seconds just to wrap around a net after clearing the puck into the corner. Pretty terrible idea. -1
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Re: Shot Clock

Post by Marker » Fri Feb 26, 2016 6:27 pm

Blitz wrote:Shot clock is probably one of the worst possible fixes to a non-existent issue of bitch walking. I'll say it again... bitch walking isn't an issue right now and is literally only ever an issue when people continuously talk about it like it's some game-breaking mechanic right now that everyone is abusing. The system we currently have is absolutely fine. If you implement a shot-clock then the S6 Aiur Storms would've lost like 90% of their games. It seems selfish tbh, you just want defenders to not be able to out-possess you IMO. How can a defender control a game if he only has 20-30 seconds. It usually takes 10 seconds just to wrap around a net after clearing the puck into the corner. Pretty terrible idea. -1
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Re: Shot Clock

Post by Watermelon » Fri Feb 26, 2016 6:48 pm

Blitz wrote:Shot clock is probably one of the worst possible fixes to a non-existent issue of bitch walking. I'll say it again... bitch walking isn't an issue right now and is literally only ever an issue when people continuously talk about it like it's some game-breaking mechanic right now that everyone is abusing. The system we currently have is absolutely fine. If you implement a shot-clock then the S6 Aiur Storms would've lost like 90% of their games. It seems selfish tbh, you just want defenders to not be able to out-possess you IMO. How can a defender control a game if he only has 20-30 seconds. It usually takes 10 seconds just to wrap around a net after clearing the puck into the corner. Pretty terrible idea. -1

I'm honestly wondering if you even read my whole post, or you're just posting this in response to the title.


I couldn't disagree more frnd. Bitch walking is an issue. It's an issue every time it gets called or not called by a caster. We shouldn't settle for "people don't abuse it as hard as they could" as an excuse for why we should just leave it in the game. We're lucky it's not abused every single game. And no, Aiur would've been fine because the duration of a shot clock that we're looking at is pretty long (the longest play I found was 27 seconds, and I'm suggesting a shot clock of 30).

Yes, defenders will be slightly nerfed in the time they have to make outlet passes (although it hardly ever takes more than 10 seconds to get the puck across the halfcourt line), but defenders will also get a slight buff because the puck has to come to you, even when you're losing. You can't say that about the current state of the game.

tl;dr any nerf to outlet passes is also a buff to the opposing defense, so your argument cancels itself out


I understand you're scared of having to change playstyles (and I've structured this idea in such a way that it really shouldn't change your playstyle besides a reminder that you can't take years to send the puck forward), but my concerns transcend players' individual attitudes. I'm thinking about improving Zealot Hockey as a video game so it can grow with more players. It is the opposite of selfish.


I strongly encourage anyone to take a game of Zealot Hockey and record possession times yourself. See how long it actually takes to accomplish different types of plays, and tell me what you find. Doing it myself, I've found 30 seconds is MORE THAN ENOUGH time to accomplish any sort of play. Hell, I watched a team guer-walk around their own net, pass the puck forward, dance around the perimeter, miss a pass to the 3rd man, recover the puck in their own zone again, pass up to offense again, and get a shot on goal, all in less than 30 seconds!
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Re: Shot Clock

Post by ResSlayer » Fri Feb 26, 2016 8:44 pm

I believe adding a shot clock will change the way zealot hockey is played quite a bit. Even though most possessions don't exceed 30 seconds, the fact that the offense will have that limited time remaining will change how the goalie and defense plays depending on how much time is left. I personally view this change as a buff to goalie/defense, and I see the changes it would bring as positive since it will lead to more situations where there is suspense and fast paced action. Just like in the NBA where a shooter will be forced into a buzzer beater shot, I think those situations would be amazing in zealot hockey. For the sole purpose of removing bitchwalking without effecting the way zealot hockey is currently played, I would say adding the NBA's rule of passing half court in a limited time and the back court violation would be enough. However, I'm pretty confident that the shot clock will bring a new layer of excitement to our games.
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Re: Shot Clock

Post by JMoney » Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:10 pm

A few thoughts I had when reading this thread:

-A shot clock won't necessarily make the game more exciting. It could speed up the overall tempo of the game, but strong defensive teams could also force teams into just taking more low quality shots (in comparison to taking time to set up a high quality attempt) to make use of the clock.

-Giving the opposing team's goalie the puck puts an emphasis on goalies learning to pass - something that seems to be severely lacking in the current game.

-IMO a team losing possession completely for not being able to generate a scoring chance is a bit extreme. An alternative would be a system where if you run out the shot clock, a faceoff is called and you have 30% or 50% less time to generate a shot. If you can't make a shot in that time, then it should default to the opposing team getting a "free" possession.

-Would score effects (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck- ... 44781.html - the first & second groups of paragraphs are most relevant) be mostly dead with a shot clock?
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