Shot Clock

Post suggestions you have here that relate to the game's mechanics
Kelvin
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Re: Shot Clock

Post by Kelvin » Thu Mar 03, 2016 6:37 pm

Great research and post. I agree with this whole post. If this were to be implemented; it would be cool if the shot clock timer could be set before the game... It would help with creating training scenarios or mini zh games, similar to how we have red line mode. As a previous owner, I know it would've been helpful to have a 15 sec shot clock when coaching players. I'm also sure there are a lot of other reasons why the shot clock can be beneficial aside from combating bitch walking.
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Re: Shot Clock

Post by Watermelon » Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:56 pm

Blitz wrote:
Kholin wrote:I was at first iffy on the idea of a shot clock, but I think Water's argument is too strong to ignore or have any meaningful disagreement with besides "but we've always done it this way." The current system of having the caster needing to make the call is inherently flawed, and the subjectivity of the call means that there is no way we can go through a ZHL season without some sort of controversy. The shot clock, if created as Water has entailed, removes that subjective part of the game, and will as a whole make ZHL games both more interesting and fair. If anything, the 30 second clock he has mentioned is far longer than any team needs to shoot unless they are specifically stalling for time. 30 seconds is a long fucking time on the ice. An 8th of a period per play is more than reasonable to expect from teams. As water said, It's common sense.
I agree that bitchwalking should in theory be eliminated, but some time wasting is completely acceptable. It's fuckig stupid to mandate that if you're up 1 goal in the last 1 min of a game that you're forced to play offense and try and score. That's the upmost stupid thing I've ever heard. It's acceptable to waste a little bit of time, but swift walking for 2 minutes is too much. Perhaps in the third period increase the shot clock to 45 seconds? @Watermelon
You're again missing the point of the data I've collected. A 30 second shotclock prevents the most excessive bitchwalking. Teams hardly ever hold the puck longer than 30 seconds unless they are bitchwalking. The data supports this conclusion. In the final minute, a 30 second shot clock allows you to hold the puck for 30 seconds while staying defensive, then literally pass the puck to the other team and stop them one more time. If they don't score on that last attempt, you can hold out the rest of the game and they have to yolo. I don't find that equivalent to being "forced to play offense and try and score".

I honestly don't know how you can watch this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHKQNL89_5M

and still think 30 seconds is too short.

Our "bitchwalking rules" enforced by casters right now plague the game with confusion. When your team is losing with 2 minutes remaining, you shouldn't have to sit there and wonder if the other team will be allowed to hold the puck for 2 minutes. "Do I have to yolo? Will the caster call this at some point....?" (Just look at the end of the Mallrats/Ice Cocks game last night - had the Ice Cocks known whether or not the bitchwalk would be called, they could've made a decision, but our current system is just way too subjective and inconsistent)

The amount of time each team has to waste should be clear and visible for all participating parties to see, especially in a video game where such a thing is absolutely possible.
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Re: Shot Clock

Post by themusic » Fri Mar 04, 2016 11:28 am

Some edge cases:

1. If there is 1 second remaining and you shoot and barely miss the post and it goes wide, does the shot clock expire and turnovet possession?

2. If you hit the post with 1 sec left and get the rebound does the clock expire or reset?

3. If there is 1 second left and you dump the puck to the opposite end to clear it, does the clock expire even if none of your teammates are nearby?
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Re: Shot Clock

Post by Watermelon » Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:17 pm

themusic wrote:Some edge cases:

1. If there is 1 second remaining and you shoot and barely miss the post and it goes wide, does the shot clock expire and turnovet possession?
Yes

I think you'll find that 19 times out of 20, the shot clock will not expire after a missed shot. Legitimate offense hardly ever reaches the 25 second mark, there's usually either a shot on net or a turnover by then.
themusic wrote:2. If you hit the post with 1 sec left and get the rebound does the clock expire or reset?
The clock would expire. I didn't count post bounces as shots on goal in my data. I think the reset would only apply when a shot on goal is registered in the game, and since the game doesn't register post bounces as shots, the shot clock wouldn't either.
themusic wrote:3. If there is 1 second left and you dump the puck to the opposite end to clear it, does the clock expire even if none of your teammates are nearby?
Yes (explanation in quote below)
Watermelon wrote:
hatestabkill wrote: In section B, I don't believe the puck should reset to the goalie if neither team has possession at the end of the shot clock. That scenario is not defined. I would say if the defensive team gets there first, play on, and if the offensive team gets there first, only then is the penalty called, kind of like how offsides is handled in soccer.
I considered this, but it has one major problem: A team could soak their shot clock to the last seconds, then tap the puck into a corner and sit around the corner, waiting for the other team to grab it so they can immediately steal for another whole shot clock. Giving the other team the puck directly is the only way to guarantee their possessions.

What I imagine is for a shot clock expiration to put the violating team in a compromising position defensively. I'm not set on the best method of doing this yet, but teams should feel compelled to avoid the expiration because of the disadvantaged position they're placed in on the other team's inherited possession. (Example: Other team gets the puck, penalized team starts with a delay on their boost cooldowns or something - idk)
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Re: Shot Clock

Post by themusic » Fri Mar 04, 2016 10:29 pm

Does clock exist the entire game or just the last 1:30 or something? Does it occur in overtime and 3rd period?
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Re: Shot Clock

Post by Watermelon » Fri Mar 04, 2016 11:31 pm

themusic wrote:Does clock exist the entire game or just the last 1:30 or something? Does it occur in overtime and 3rd period?
I would have it for all of regulation.

It's not really necessary in OT since theres no advantage to bitchwalking the entire thing, but for the sake of consistency it would make sense to keep having a shotclock.
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Re: Shot Clock

Post by themusic » Sat Mar 05, 2016 6:46 am

What are your thoughts on the shot clock always existing, but only displaying somewhere small in the ui when there are 10 second remaining? May help with reducing urgency during normal play. Perhaps more like a game mechanic which is invisible and irrelevant except during extremely long possessions.
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Re: Shot Clock

Post by DerrocK » Sat Mar 05, 2016 9:15 am

I wouldn't mind a change in the gameplay as a whole to get the shot clock during all the game but, otherwise I think in the last 2 mins wouldn't be too bad either
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Re: Shot Clock

Post by MoS » Sat Mar 05, 2016 11:50 am

Point is it wouldn't change anything if it's during the whole game (1st and 2nd P are usually pretty open and fast), except maybe for some trolls in pub. So might as well put it in the whole game I believe :P
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Re: Shot Clock

Post by TeeKay » Sat Mar 05, 2016 1:39 pm

themusic wrote:What are your thoughts on the shot clock always existing, but only displaying somewhere small in the ui when there are 10 second remaining? May help with reducing urgency during normal play. Perhaps more like a game mechanic which is invisible and irrelevant except during extremely long possessions.
I agree with that, but I would start showing it at 15 seconds. Most plays don't last 15 seconds, and if you get a warning timer that you STILL have 15 seconds left, you shouldn't feel that rushed even to make a play immediately. 10 seconds might let the defense play differently.
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