SIGN UP for EUDL midseason draft!

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Re: SIGN UP for EUDL midseason draft!

Post by Amigaway » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:00 am

pros of midseason draft :

- give the players that didn't get to sign up before (wether they didn't know, were afk, didn't think they could make it) a chance to participate in an event that happens about 2-3 times / year.
- allow teams that are unbalanced a chance at coming back and making playoffs.

Cons :

- Some players lose their spot in main / probe every season because of new players.
- Can be pretty unbalanced and give a lower ranked team a second player who's 1st rounder lvl while others might have nothing.

It's a flawed system from a competitive approach for sure and it might exclude some players, but I have to agree with Ozy on this.

How do you classify players that are "experienced" and have to be excluded ? Is that doudles level ? or are those players who played a zhl game in the past ? or a carrier in probe ? Or anyone who isn't totally new ?
I think your comment was based on the higher skilled players, but usually those guys have reasons to not sign up (knowing they'll be afk for half the season seems reason enough : running the risk of being drafter by an owner who didn't know about the afk or assumed they might show up anyway could just ruin a team, while being drafted very low would give their team an unfair advantage at the end of the season...).
2) It's true that some players that showed up for the first half of the season will lose their spot in main or even in probe, as it happened in the past. At the same time, there are already a lot of active players who don't get much playtime despite showing up. The main way to fix that would be more owners but it's already hard to get 7-8 per season (and this is coming from a guy who refused to be owner because of supposed attendance issue, but who still has the time to comment on forum and show up 3/4 Sundays up till now...).

As for the point of trying early on :

- At least in probe team, some players who wouldn't have been preferred at the start of the season might be, because of how invaluable they were for their team before midseason draft. For instance, I would be surprised to see Deadpool ending up on the bench because of midseason draft. Despite being a R10, he did extremely well both as defender and keeper when on field despite some very unbalanced games.

- As for main, teams that'll get their hands on a 1st rounder are the one who haven't been performing so well (from what I can tell, last season had maybe 4 players who could be main leaguers and only two played in main league, on teams that were missing one main leaguer because of afk and had quiet a few attendance issue). Having some change in their lineup doesn't seem that unfair to me. This season, some probes who showed up every week ended up being traded because their team had few results / too many players considered better. Some teams try to give everyone some play time, some do their best to trade their extra players to teams that can actually use them, but all in all, it's usually the better skilled players who are chosen for most of regular season and playoffs. I fail to see how this mechanic, which is a result of any competitive play, can be considered unfair in main league, which is supposed to have a higher level of competition, despite it being inherent to probe league. A 4th rounder being pushed to probe because of midseason draft doesn't seem more unfair than a 10th rounder who's unable to play regularly because there are better skilled players in his team, even if he shows up every week. Even if he does show up, odds are the 4th rounder who was afk for 2 months and barely made the 3 games played condition will still take his spot in playoffs. In fact, it's less unfair, because the main leaguer can probably still play in probe, while the 10th rounder just has to hope for an afk or a trade to be able to play. Again, the only solution to this is more owner (and again, I know this is rich, coming from someone who refused to be owner...)


Maybe you could argue trade windows solved part of the issue of unhappy players this season (5 trades OP) and nullified part of the argument in favor of midseason draft, because it already allows for some rebalancing between teams and helps players on stacked team find a spot on others sometimes. I think it's a great mechanic though not exempt of flaws (Rime is probably less happy than before right now). Only time will tell how much of an impact it actually had on the season as a whole though.
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Re: SIGN UP for EUDL midseason draft!

Post by Rigensis » Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:20 pm

Amigaway wrote:Some teams try to give everyone some play time
There`s a rule - if a player has less than 3 games in probe league then that player cant participate in Probe Playoffs.
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Re: SIGN UP for EUDL midseason draft!

Post by Rigensis » Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:35 pm

Rig here to provide some historical perspective of Mid-Season-Draft (MSD).

After we had our only season of clan league - people demanded draft league with NA rules. It was delivered.

USA major sport leagues have drafts - with a big televised event.
Only draft event in EU is KHL afaik - Kontinential Hockey league by Russia. And even there they have age limit 17 - i think.

So - there are big difference in culture of sports world regarding draft. Would a draft league designed by EUs include draft - most likely no.

With each season we introduce some new EU features - like OP Probe winners going to Main League playoffs. So keep suggestions coming - especially in the period before the draft when the most rules are created and tuned.

About USA drafts - it IS designed to give weaker teams better players so there would be more balanced teams which then translates into more profit.
So in that aspect ZH mid-season draft is working exactly as designed.
The odd thing about ZHL draft is that happens in middle of season. This season we have had 3-4 times when Probe team did not have enough players online for game - which is less than last season. If there is a good way to address this issue without MSD.

Another problem - nobody wants to watch and play in unbalanced games - MSD draft addresses this issue. The perfect solution tho would be to have owners who collectively makes the best draft picks. Ownership is not a piece of cake, not many wants to be owner.

There is a practical problem with excluding high level players from MSD - the fear of smurfing.

Before this season league officer team had extensive discussion about removing MSD - main reason why there was a vote about length of the season was MSD - if we had cut the season in half then we would not need to have MSD. It takes 3 months to finish a season. We tried to have games during weekdays which didnt work out well - also had 2 community vote on this where ppl opted in favour of Sundays. We want to have players not to be locked out from league for so long time.
Technically we could have multiple rounds during Sunday but that would mean that majority of games would not be not streamed.

Someone provided stat that MSD didnt help any team which were under the playoff line to get into playoffs. Someone needs to make stats on how things were influenced in those teams which were over playoff line at MSD.

So with that off my chest - there is a push to figure out a better way how to deal with all issues MSD addresses. Keep the suggestions coming!
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Re: SIGN UP for EUDL midseason draft!

Post by BoooM » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:57 pm

Slide wrote:
Vapour wrote:Please restrict experienced players from the draft... If they wanted to play, they should've signed up at the initial draft.
Otherwise what's the point of trying early on, if you're gonna get a stacked team for the remainder of the season.

Plus, it removes those couple players in zhl/zhpl who played the entirety season to earn that extra spot.
Why are you talking with EU vap nothing will change like 2012 cause its EU.
We say that since EUDL2 i'm done with it. And with all the multiple rules that are stupid ( 50% attendance playing 100% in playoff. ............ )
Criticism is never fun to see and endure, but there is often a reason to give it a thought. In your case however, criticism seems oddly out of place and plain inappropriate.
May I remind you that you were personally asked to become a league manager? May I remind you how swiftly and firmly you declined the offer?
Of course, real life has priority over some sc2 arcade, but given the fact that you have not exactly been abstaining from online activities, I think that you could have been perfectly able to skip 4-5 games over the span of a month and instead give your input on how to improve the league. As a matter of fact, there are two other LMs who knew that they will not have much time to contribute. They were still asked to join in order to help shape the league and contributed in whatever way they could. There are multiple LMs that have the motivation and can spare the time to keep the league running. You were not asked to slave away on a weekly basis. You were merely asked to give your ideas... and you refused.
If you wanted to try to change something, you should have taken up the offer like others did.
As a matter of fact, you apparently could not even spare 5 minutes neither to post in the thread where I asked the community for suggestions nor to shoot me a PM with any ideas. (Both of which others did and had their ideas discussed at length and implemented in one way or another)


Furthermore, there are some things that strike me as weird:

- Given the fact that the first EUDL was played in 2015, I am not sure what exactly did not change "like 2012".
- The only team to ever win the EUDL playoffs using a player drafted in mid-season was the team in which you were the owner.


It is impossible to structure the league in such a manner that everybody is happy. Thus, while some criticism is worthwhile taking into consideration, a lot of it can be dismissed as not being thought through enough. You, however, are literally the last person to have any right to complain, since you did not make any effort to remedy any issues you saw despite being personally asked to.
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Re: SIGN UP for EUDL midseason draft!

Post by Slide » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:23 pm

BoooM wrote: - Given the fact that the first EUDL was played in 2015, I am not sure what exactly did not change "like 2012".
- The only team to ever win the EUDL playoffs using a player drafted in mid-season was the team in which you were the owner.
Rip 2nd degree.
And i said that this league wasnt a victory like the last one. sorry :)
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Re: SIGN UP for EUDL midseason draft!

Post by LoOgiK » Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:59 pm

Show more love :( don't forget that you were teammates ! I think that slide has pretty ok ideas but he just hides some of those behind sarcasm . 8-) Also you can't really tell that we don't change anything,if you could check management sheet you would be able to see that we did or thought at least of many minor changes, which probably is the only thing to do considering that most of the problems encountered in the past were inside the teams and due to a few players. :mrgreen: :ugeek:
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Re: SIGN UP for EUDL midseason draft!

Post by SilentFate » Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:44 am

LoOgiK wrote:Show more love :( don't forget that you were teammates ! I think that slide has pretty ok ideas but he just hides some of those behind sarcasm . 8-) Also you can't really tell that we don't change anything,if you could check management sheet you would be able to see that we did or thought at least of many minor changes, which probably is the only thing to do considering that most of the problems encountered in the past were inside the teams and due to a few players. :mrgreen: :ugeek:
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Re: SIGN UP for EUDL midseason draft!

Post by LoOgiK » Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:34 am

Cya 98.5
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Re: SIGN UP for EUDL midseason draft!

Post by SilentFate » Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:12 am

LoOgiK wrote:Cya 98.5
Kiss my two rings u bitch ass pussy and pray u wont see me in play offs otherwise ill take u and ur whole squad down just by myself
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Re: SIGN UP for EUDL midseason draft!

Post by LoOgiK » Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:42 am

ahahahahahahah sure buddy :D
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