Why i disagree with the Elo League

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Re: Why i disagree with the Elo League

Post by Slide » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:18 am

I asked ruckle about goalies preference, ELO or IXDL.
Ruckle wrote: I prefer IXDL although mainly for game balance and ejoyment. In ELO league there are a lot of games that are free wins or free losses basically decided at draft. In a free win i basically do nothing Im just sitting there for 20 minutes waiting for the game to end.. no challenge no motivation to really play. In the free losses its basically GG even if I play my best. I feel as a skater you atleast will have fun in the wins, and have a chance in the losses.

ELO bot I think is better if you strictly want a ranking / ladder system regardless of game quality. In IXDL you get bonus points for streaks or ending a streak. You can still be competitive but generally the more you play the more bonus points you will get. It is still hard to maintain a high elo though as you will los more elo than you gain per win .. so its not completely based on number of games, but they do affect it quite a bit.

"In na there aren't many active goalies so the issue EUs are having where you sometimes get like 3 goalie teams doesn't apply for most of my games.." but its happened to me in eu and yea those games generally aren't good. Multiple goalie teams can still happen in IXDL.. but its a draft. Sometimes I would draft fancypants or gandalf but mainly because they were the best skaters available.
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Re: Why i disagree with the Elo League

Post by DerrocK » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:14 am

With cryoblade there might be a separate elo ranking for goalies and a matchmaking system to correctly balance it out
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Re: Why i disagree with the Elo League

Post by Amigaway » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:35 pm

My only current concern with ELO is the problems it pauses to newcomers getting interested in the game. Right now, a newcomer who's had a little pub experience can start playing some sort of priv games with low level players, but with ELO I fear the gap between pubs and priv players will get larger. There aren't that many players to point them towards ELO and they might frustrate top tier players who'll tell them to go back to pub. I already had a few pub players ask me about ELO. They were confused by the fact some usual pub players / privers who usually invited them would stop showing in pubs / kick them from lobbies.

With that said, ELO has been out for only a fews days, it's difficult to speculate about its effects on the pubs. There's still some pub lobbies running so I'm guessing it's not hurting the pub community that badly. I think a bit more time is needed to determine if the ELO balance will improve, but I think it's better than autobala and has the added advantage of getting players who don't usually play together in the same lobby.

Admittedly I don't have that many players that I dislike playing with, so I can't really tell how bad it can get. But to me, being forced to play for one game with some player I dislike isn't that bad. You can also choose to not join the ELO lobby that person is in.


To me, the benefits of ELO are as follow :
1 - Randomized lobbies means everyone gets a chance to play. Martin or Kirko can be in the same lobbies as Slide and Lime. It's a great way to help less skilled players improve by forcing lobbies with strong players who actually care a little (cause of ranking).
2 - It forces people to adapt and varies their play styles. In general, when I play pub, clan games, league or private, I'm pretty much def 85% of the time. ELO means I can end up in a team where I'm more suited to keep, because my teammates are a lot stronger, or it can be more interesting for me to go support if the offense of the other team is insanely strong and we have one OP player. I can even end up being offense in some setups.
I get that some players dislike having to adapt to the situation, but to me ELO is extremely fun because you have to do the best you can with what you get.
3 - More chances for people willing to play. Usually, when I wanted to join a private game, I had to either host one and hope enough players were around, snipe at the right time which meant wait for ages to steal someone's spot, wait for a lobby to need players. Even then, there was no guarantee that I would be accepted if the lobby was too strong or the players in it waiting for someone else. To get a lobby, the best bet was to join a ZH clan or keep trying and stay alert for a while. With ELO, sure you can be kept out once or twice, but you just enlist and you can do whatever in the meantime. Even if you can't get into a lobby, you don't have to wait for the next spot to snipe, you just join, do whatever and wait for the notification from discord. Sure, that means pretty much everyone can join your lobby, even players you dislike. But I'd much rather include everyone in the community than just kick people I dislike from lobbies for the entire night.
4 - Competition. Yes, I've read Lexaya's answers stating that some private games can be awesome and you can get a remake and great games for a while. I totally agree some privs can be awesome. I dare to say, some pubs can be just as great. And I totally agree that not all ELO games are great. But ELO is only starting, it's hard to judge its results on such a small sample. And out of all games I've played so far, quiet a few were great, the ratio is certainly better than the one I usually get from privates or pubs. The reason for that, Imo, is that there are way less players that give up in ELO. It's a competition, sometimes you'll have to face impossible odds, but both teams actually try. This CAN lead to some upsets and makes for very thrilling games. Similar situations in private usually ended up with either a fast rq from the losing team or the other team just messing around for 15 minutes. Either way, I think ELO is a lot more fun.

As for the negatives :
1 - A lot less TOP tier private games. Lobbies do have top tier players, but ressemble more a weird ZHL / ZHPL match (depending on who's in it) than a ZHCL game. Would be first rounders are usually forced to carry and play off position to secure the win; very few games offering more than 1 ZHL level keeper.
2 - As said before, unknown impact on pub games and the evolution of pub players into private players.
3 - The fact ELO is on discord actually blocks some players from joining it / learning about it.

Short Version :


I think ELO is a system that improves the gaming experience of mid level players, from low probe to fringe main. Those guys get lobbies with varied experiences and get to play with and against ZHL level players in situations where those guys actually play seriously. I think ELO could have a negative effect on pub players wanting to become private level players because joining ELO isn't that easy for players outside of the current community, even long time pub players. I think it's certainly a step down from top tier lobbies since the nature of ELO limits the likeliness of those type of lobbies. As such, it might be discarded by some top tier players in favor of more high level lobbies when enough top tier players are around.
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Re: Why i disagree with the Elo League

Post by LoOgiK » Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:57 am

o my fucking god, all this useless text for a few ranked privs haHAAA
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Re: Why i disagree with the Elo League

Post by Gandalf » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:12 am

Just make ZH a 15 player lobby. And build ELO league into it.....Lets go music!
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Re: Why i disagree with the Elo League

Post by Lime » Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:26 pm

Bring back ixdl
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Re: Why i disagree with the Elo League

Post by TeeKay » Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:23 pm

The only one I agree with is #2, disliking #2 permanent rankings.

I think it should be similar to SC2 competitive seasons where every 4-ish months rankings get reset and people are vying to be the best of that season. You could keep a career record, but for ELO purposes have everyone reset to 1000 after a season.
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Re: Why i disagree with the Elo League

Post by Eldersage » Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:44 pm

ELOBA league!!
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Re: Why i disagree with the Elo League

Post by Marker » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:23 pm

holy shit i didnt even know this thread exists.

elo wont be perm because after s12 on NA ill make a draft bot and reset ELO, but keep this as a backup if I want to go back to rando league after s13, or perhaps just run both
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Re: Why i disagree with the Elo League

Post by Slide » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:25 am

Marker wrote:holy shit i didnt even know this thread exists.

elo wont be perm because after s12 on NA ill make a draft bot and reset ELO, but keep this as a backup if I want to go back to rando league after s13, or perhaps just run both
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